Yes, I probably understood “indescribable” as a synonymous of “very intense”, not of literary “can’t be described”.
But now I have one more idea about really “indescribable hellworld”: imagine that there is a qualia of suffering which is infinitely worse than anything that any living being ever felt on Earth, and it appears in some hellword, but only in animals or in humans who can’t speak (young children, patients just before death, or it paralises the ability to speak by its intensity and also can’t be remembered—I read historical cases of pain so intense that a person was not able to provide very important information).
So, this hellworld will look almost as our normal world: animals live and die, people live normal and happy (in time-average) lives and also die. But some counterfactual observer which will be able to feel qualia of any living being will find it infinitely more hellish than our world.
We also could live now in such hellworld but don’t know it.
The main reason why it can’t be described as most people don’t believe in qualia, and and observable characteristics of this world will be not hellish. Beings in such world could be also called reverse-p-zombies, as they have much more stronger capability to “experiencing” than ordinary humans.
We also could live now in such hellworld but don’t know it.
Indeed. But you’ve just described it to us ^_^
What I’m mainly asking is “if we end up in world W, and no honest AI can describe to us how this might be a hellworld, is it automatically not a hellworld?”
It looks like examples are not working here, as any example is an explanation, so it doesn’t count :)
But in some sense it could be similar to the Godel theorem: there are true propositions which can’t be proved by AI (and explanation could be counted as a type of prove).
Ok, another example: there are bad pieces of art, I know it, but I can’t explain why they are bad in formal language.
Yes, I probably understood “indescribable” as a synonymous of “very intense”, not of literary “can’t be described”.
But now I have one more idea about really “indescribable hellworld”: imagine that there is a qualia of suffering which is infinitely worse than anything that any living being ever felt on Earth, and it appears in some hellword, but only in animals or in humans who can’t speak (young children, patients just before death, or it paralises the ability to speak by its intensity and also can’t be remembered—I read historical cases of pain so intense that a person was not able to provide very important information).
So, this hellworld will look almost as our normal world: animals live and die, people live normal and happy (in time-average) lives and also die. But some counterfactual observer which will be able to feel qualia of any living being will find it infinitely more hellish than our world.
We also could live now in such hellworld but don’t know it.
The main reason why it can’t be described as most people don’t believe in qualia, and and observable characteristics of this world will be not hellish. Beings in such world could be also called reverse-p-zombies, as they have much more stronger capability to “experiencing” than ordinary humans.
Indeed. But you’ve just described it to us ^_^
What I’m mainly asking is “if we end up in world W, and no honest AI can describe to us how this might be a hellworld, is it automatically not a hellworld?”
It looks like examples are not working here, as any example is an explanation, so it doesn’t count :)
But in some sense it could be similar to the Godel theorem: there are true propositions which can’t be proved by AI (and explanation could be counted as a type of prove).
Ok, another example: there are bad pieces of art, I know it, but I can’t explain why they are bad in formal language.
That’s what I’m fearing, so I’m trying to see if the concept makes sense.