Other question: Is there anyone here who used to be creepy, and now is significantly less so? How did that happen?
raises hand
I read this, included the comments thread, and thought about it.
OTOH, there’s the huge confounding factor that it was shortly after I came back from Ireland to Italy, and Italians are harder to creep out than Anglo-Saxon people. Stand one metre from (say) an American and they will freak the hell out; stand one metre from an Italian and they’ll wonder whether they smell. Also, I can’t see any evidence that many women in Italy are anywhere nearly as scared of potential rapists as Starling describes (at least where I am—in larger cities and/or more fucked-up regions the situation might be different). So, to be sure it’s my absolute creepiness that decreased and not the standard by which it’s measured that increased, I’d have to go back to an English-speaking country and see how I’m received there.
OTOH, there’s the huge confounding factor that it was shortly after I came back from Ireland to Italy, and Italians are harder to creep out than Anglo-Saxon people. Stand one metre from (say) an American and they will freak the hell out; stand one metre from an Italian and they’ll wonder whether they smell.
The example you give illustrates the difference in personal space norms between cultures, I’ll take it on your word that Italians also happen to be less easily creeped out. But the difference in personal space norms doesn’t itself indicate much about who is most easily creeped out. Trying to make a social approach and standing a more than appropriate distance away could itself be creepy (although obviously not as creepy as a personal space invasion itself.)
Neither does French, by the way, which seems to indicate some difference on how that topic is considered in different cultures.
I’m not familiar enough with gender issues in geek conventions in France to tell what forms similar concerns take here; though I do remember a girl complaining that Richard Stallman kept staring at her boobs.
The example you give illustrates the difference in personal space norms between cultures, I’ll take it on your word that Italians also happen to be less easily creeped out. But the difference in personal space norms doesn’t itself indicate much about who is most easily creeped out.
I suspect, based to the limited number of cultures I’m familiar with, that if you did cross-cultural studies you’d find that the two are correlated.
Not obvious to me that that can be generalized to other interactions. Some people could be much less creeped out by someone waiting in a line two feet behind them but not otherwise interacting with them in any way than by someone standing in front of them talking to them at the same distance.
raises hand
I read this, included the comments thread, and thought about it.
OTOH, there’s the huge confounding factor that it was shortly after I came back from Ireland to Italy, and Italians are harder to creep out than Anglo-Saxon people. Stand one metre from (say) an American and they will freak the hell out; stand one metre from an Italian and they’ll wonder whether they smell. Also, I can’t see any evidence that many women in Italy are anywhere nearly as scared of potential rapists as Starling describes (at least where I am—in larger cities and/or more fucked-up regions the situation might be different). So, to be sure it’s my absolute creepiness that decreased and not the standard by which it’s measured that increased, I’d have to go back to an English-speaking country and see how I’m received there.
The example you give illustrates the difference in personal space norms between cultures, I’ll take it on your word that Italians also happen to be less easily creeped out. But the difference in personal space norms doesn’t itself indicate much about who is most easily creeped out. Trying to make a social approach and standing a more than appropriate distance away could itself be creepy (although obviously not as creepy as a personal space invasion itself.)
Italian doesn’t even have a good translation for creepy! (Inquietante ‘unsettling’ is close, but not quite there.) :-)
(Smiley obligatory per Poe’s Law, as some people seem to take such arguments seriously.)
Neither does French, by the way, which seems to indicate some difference on how that topic is considered in different cultures.
I’m not familiar enough with gender issues in geek conventions in France to tell what forms similar concerns take here; though I do remember a girl complaining that Richard Stallman kept staring at her boobs.
Have heard that some parts of Europe have very large problems with sexual harassment of an agressive form beyond creepyness.
I suspect, based to the limited number of cultures I’m familiar with, that if you did cross-cultural studies you’d find that the two are correlated.
That wouldn’t surprise me.
From what I’m told about queues in New York, there might be significant regional variations among Americans in that respect.
Not obvious to me that that can be generalized to other interactions. Some people could be much less creeped out by someone waiting in a line two feet behind them but not otherwise interacting with them in any way than by someone standing in front of them talking to them at the same distance.