Hedonically happier, huh? A Roissy quote seems appropriate:
Happiness is not granted from on high nor is it a wispy feeling that randomly alights on your mood. Happiness is constructed. It is the direct result of actions taken that further your genes’ goals of survival and reproduction.
I would’ve amended it to say “likely to have furthered your genes’ goals in the ancestral environment”, but the original formulation fits Aaronson’s story like a glove.
It may very well fit the story like a glove, but that doesn’t make it any less egregious of a misunderstanding of evolutionary biology. She’s hedonically happier, and she seems to have increased her odds of reproducing; direct causality does not seem present. If her amazing new boyfriend is sterile, it isn’t really going to change the equation that much.
Being raped wasn’t likely to further your genes’ goals in the ancestral environment, because it decreases your chances to reproduce consensually with a better mate and maybe have him provide resources for the kids.
You’re ignoring spousal rape, where a better mate is already only going to be had through the spouse’s death or hazardous subterfuge, and resource support for the kids can indeed be expected.
I’m skeptical of Roissy’s claim, but I’m not sure your examples are as obvious or convincing as you seem to think.
Unless I’m extremely atypical (which is possible), it is incorrect to say that superstimulant foods and masturbation bring happiness. They bring contentment, which is different and less satisfying. To the extent that this is a definitional dispute, the happiness they bring is far weaker and far more evanescent compared to e.g. feeling like part of a group, feeling like you’ve “made a difference”, etc.
Next, regarding forced reproduction, if it had to be forced, it was a kind of reproduction that the victim’s evolved architecture did not judge to be genetically optimal.
Rape is a bit trickier, for a number of reasons, but it’s clear why it would have questionable, not stricktly good impact on genes. As cousin_it mentioned, someone who rapes you is unlikely to stick around to provide resources for the kids. And like with forced reproduction, the fact that it had to be forced is evidence your body doesn’t regard it as furthering your genes.
Now, to play devil’s advocate, there is the Sexy Son Hypothesis, WHICH I DON’T ENDORSE, which says that the actual father’s willingness to commit is irrelevant because you can just rook a productive male into thinking the baby’s his. So being raped means you get a son (if a boy) who can successfully rape other women, who then rook another man into raising that son, etc. But again, against the clear disadvantages of being raped, this at best proves, under Roissy’s theory, why the woman would feel conflicted, not happy.
Next, regarding forced reproduction, if it had to be forced, it was a kind of reproduction that the victim’s evolved architecture did not judge to be genetically optimal.
By the way, this isn’t necessarily the case. Depending on the species, it could also be the case that force is part of the selection process for determining a mate’s suitability. Evolution isn’t a kind and loving god, alas. (Some species’ mating rituals involve the death of one or both partners, for example.)
I mean “forced”, as I think PH did, in the sense of “the being that was forced did not want to do it”. The cases of beetles that get their heads bitten off after mating with a female wouldn’t be a relevant example, since, in the appropriate sense, the male seems to want that.
But then, if resistance is part of some test, than PH’s example wouldn’t be relevant anyway.
Now, to play devil’s advocate, there is the Sexy Son Hypothesis, WHICH I DON’T ENDORSE
Endorse meaning, “consider true”, or endorse meaning, “consider morally good”? I could understand the latter (so few things about evolution can be considered “good”, after all), but don’t get the former. Do you think it’s untrue?
Enough people who read that post won’t be able to tell the difference.
The only clear implication I can take from that is that you believe the people in this environment are poor at distinguishing between statements of fact and moral assertions when it comes to potentially sensitive topics.
Oh. Hang on. Took me a while but I can figure it out from there after all. I’ve reversed my downvote. Reasonable answer.
My response is to the Roissy quote specifically, which says, “direct result of actions taken that further your genes’ goals” NOT “would have furthered your genes’ goals in the ancestral environment.” Thus, in the case of forced reproduction, if you were locked in a small room and given just enough food to survive, but then given the opportunity to reproduce with a fertile partner every single time that you were capable of causing conception, you would (I’d hope) not be happy, even though you would produce many, many more times the surviving offspring (if you’re male, literally thousands of times the surviving offspring). It seems almost trivially obvious that objectively maximizing inclusive genetic fitness will not make you happy.
The amendment “tend to maximize… in the ancestral environment” changes the equation completely. First, it’s very prone to “just-so” stories; one can invent a decent explanation as to why practically any action increases genetic fitness (i.e. celibacy is for aunt/unclehood). Second, because the cause is tremendously indirect, it isn’t realistic to say that the cause of someone’s increased happiness is the fact that they are (or would be in the AE) more genetically fit, as outlined in the EY post I linked. There’s a great deal of truth to it, but it’s both indirect and tremendously imprecise. And, more generally, if someone asks “How can I be happier?” the answer is seldom, “Well, think about what would maximize your inclusive genetic fitness in the ancestral environment, and then do that.”
On a related note, my problem with a lot of Roissy’s reasoning is that he views people in terms of rather binary “objective” Platonic ideals of “male” and “female” and does not account for either innate or learned differences, instead dismissing such as trivial, which is quite problematic, because a great diversity of preferences actually exist.
Edit: Also, wikipedia’s phrasing of the sexy son hypothesis contradicts what I’ve read elsewhere. The idea is that if females generally prefer trait X, then females should choose males with trait X, even if trait X is completely superficial, because then their sons will be more successful with future females. That doesn’t make non-superficial trait Y irrelevant, and there is no basis in reason nor a citation claiming it should. The hypothesis is simply an explanation of how an expensive superficial trait can become dominant; it has nothing (explicitly) to do with cuckoldry or anything like that.
Hedonically happier, huh? A Roissy quote seems appropriate:
I would’ve amended it to say “likely to have furthered your genes’ goals in the ancestral environment”, but the original formulation fits Aaronson’s story like a glove.
Blatantly obvious counterexamples include forced reproduction and rape. Less blatantly obvious counterexamples include masturbation and bacon double-cheeseburgers, though these don’t apply to your amended version. The fact that we have the capacity to experience hedonic pleasure because it was adaptive does not mean we experience hedonic pleasure as a direct result of acting to increase our inclusive genetic fitness.
It may very well fit the story like a glove, but that doesn’t make it any less egregious of a misunderstanding of evolutionary biology. She’s hedonically happier, and she seems to have increased her odds of reproducing; direct causality does not seem present. If her amazing new boyfriend is sterile, it isn’t really going to change the equation that much.
Being raped wasn’t likely to further your genes’ goals in the ancestral environment, because it decreases your chances to reproduce consensually with a better mate and maybe have him provide resources for the kids.
You’re ignoring spousal rape, where a better mate is already only going to be had through the spouse’s death or hazardous subterfuge, and resource support for the kids can indeed be expected.
I’m skeptical of Roissy’s claim, but I’m not sure your examples are as obvious or convincing as you seem to think.
Unless I’m extremely atypical (which is possible), it is incorrect to say that superstimulant foods and masturbation bring happiness. They bring contentment, which is different and less satisfying. To the extent that this is a definitional dispute, the happiness they bring is far weaker and far more evanescent compared to e.g. feeling like part of a group, feeling like you’ve “made a difference”, etc.
Next, regarding forced reproduction, if it had to be forced, it was a kind of reproduction that the victim’s evolved architecture did not judge to be genetically optimal.
Rape is a bit trickier, for a number of reasons, but it’s clear why it would have questionable, not stricktly good impact on genes. As cousin_it mentioned, someone who rapes you is unlikely to stick around to provide resources for the kids. And like with forced reproduction, the fact that it had to be forced is evidence your body doesn’t regard it as furthering your genes.
Now, to play devil’s advocate, there is the Sexy Son Hypothesis, WHICH I DON’T ENDORSE, which says that the actual father’s willingness to commit is irrelevant because you can just rook a productive male into thinking the baby’s his. So being raped means you get a son (if a boy) who can successfully rape other women, who then rook another man into raising that son, etc. But again, against the clear disadvantages of being raped, this at best proves, under Roissy’s theory, why the woman would feel conflicted, not happy.
By the way, this isn’t necessarily the case. Depending on the species, it could also be the case that force is part of the selection process for determining a mate’s suitability. Evolution isn’t a kind and loving god, alas. (Some species’ mating rituals involve the death of one or both partners, for example.)
I mean “forced”, as I think PH did, in the sense of “the being that was forced did not want to do it”. The cases of beetles that get their heads bitten off after mating with a female wouldn’t be a relevant example, since, in the appropriate sense, the male seems to want that.
But then, if resistance is part of some test, than PH’s example wouldn’t be relevant anyway.
Endorse meaning, “consider true”, or endorse meaning, “consider morally good”? I could understand the latter (so few things about evolution can be considered “good”, after all), but don’t get the former. Do you think it’s untrue?
Enough people who read that post won’t be able to tell the difference.
You can figure it out from there, I think.
The only clear implication I can take from that is that you believe the people in this environment are poor at distinguishing between statements of fact and moral assertions when it comes to potentially sensitive topics.
Oh. Hang on. Took me a while but I can figure it out from there after all. I’ve reversed my downvote. Reasonable answer.
My response is to the Roissy quote specifically, which says, “direct result of actions taken that further your genes’ goals” NOT “would have furthered your genes’ goals in the ancestral environment.” Thus, in the case of forced reproduction, if you were locked in a small room and given just enough food to survive, but then given the opportunity to reproduce with a fertile partner every single time that you were capable of causing conception, you would (I’d hope) not be happy, even though you would produce many, many more times the surviving offspring (if you’re male, literally thousands of times the surviving offspring). It seems almost trivially obvious that objectively maximizing inclusive genetic fitness will not make you happy.
The amendment “tend to maximize… in the ancestral environment” changes the equation completely. First, it’s very prone to “just-so” stories; one can invent a decent explanation as to why practically any action increases genetic fitness (i.e. celibacy is for aunt/unclehood). Second, because the cause is tremendously indirect, it isn’t realistic to say that the cause of someone’s increased happiness is the fact that they are (or would be in the AE) more genetically fit, as outlined in the EY post I linked. There’s a great deal of truth to it, but it’s both indirect and tremendously imprecise. And, more generally, if someone asks “How can I be happier?” the answer is seldom, “Well, think about what would maximize your inclusive genetic fitness in the ancestral environment, and then do that.”
On a related note, my problem with a lot of Roissy’s reasoning is that he views people in terms of rather binary “objective” Platonic ideals of “male” and “female” and does not account for either innate or learned differences, instead dismissing such as trivial, which is quite problematic, because a great diversity of preferences actually exist.
Edit: Also, wikipedia’s phrasing of the sexy son hypothesis contradicts what I’ve read elsewhere. The idea is that if females generally prefer trait X, then females should choose males with trait X, even if trait X is completely superficial, because then their sons will be more successful with future females. That doesn’t make non-superficial trait Y irrelevant, and there is no basis in reason nor a citation claiming it should. The hypothesis is simply an explanation of how an expensive superficial trait can become dominant; it has nothing (explicitly) to do with cuckoldry or anything like that.