Freud who are often considered useless by x-rationalists
Freud had some very good ideas; some sort of symbolic unconscious clearly exists, and he deserves the credit for formalizing it. But I think he lacked empiricism and his more detailed theories appear farfetched and therapy seems clinically useless, placebo effect aside. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Or is this an x-rationalist thing to ask :)?
Freud had some very good ideas; some sort of symbolic unconscious clearly exists, and he deserves the credit for formalizing it.
Also important are some of the other things that culture has completely taken for granted, like the id/ego/super-ego distinction, the idea of a neurosis, defense mechanisms, and an emphasis on the fundamental-ness of sex for human psychology.
But I think he lacked empiricism
Many people write speculative books that lack empiricism. Freud was incredibly popular because his work resonated with the experience of millions of people. Clearly he’s been validated: he didn’t need empiricism. Sometimes that happens with smart people. Not all of his ideas are right, but come on, it’s psychology, and much of biology isn’t right either.
therapy seems clinically useless, placebo effect aside. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
I’m extremely suspicious of studies by people like Dawes that claim psychotherapy is clinically useless. I could provide evidence that Dawes and related researchers are extremely spotty. Too lazy at the moment, but in order for you to update on expected evidence, I’ll alert you that my evidence is a comment showing serious concerns about some of Dawes’ studies that got over 50 upvotes on LW.
Freud was incredibly popular because his work resonated with the experience of millions of people. Clearly he’s been validated: he didn’t need empiricism. Sometimes that happens with smart people. Not all of his ideas are right, but come on, it’s psychology, and much of biology isn’t right either.
Sorry if I’m being naive, but by this standard L. Ron Hubbard has been ‘validated’
I’ll tentatively accept that Dawes’ work has been spotty (I do suspect that there might be some side-effects from psychotherapy, not related to the main theories, that should have been picked up). My problem with Freud that some of his core theories (sexual desire for the mother being the prime example) might well be bunk (strongly suspect this due to evolution having no reason at all for such a thing), and he never cared to check.
Freud had some very good ideas; some sort of symbolic unconscious clearly exists, and he deserves the credit for formalizing it. But I think he lacked empiricism and his more detailed theories appear farfetched and therapy seems clinically useless, placebo effect aside. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Or is this an x-rationalist thing to ask :)?
Also important are some of the other things that culture has completely taken for granted, like the id/ego/super-ego distinction, the idea of a neurosis, defense mechanisms, and an emphasis on the fundamental-ness of sex for human psychology.
Many people write speculative books that lack empiricism. Freud was incredibly popular because his work resonated with the experience of millions of people. Clearly he’s been validated: he didn’t need empiricism. Sometimes that happens with smart people. Not all of his ideas are right, but come on, it’s psychology, and much of biology isn’t right either.
I’m extremely suspicious of studies by people like Dawes that claim psychotherapy is clinically useless. I could provide evidence that Dawes and related researchers are extremely spotty. Too lazy at the moment, but in order for you to update on expected evidence, I’ll alert you that my evidence is a comment showing serious concerns about some of Dawes’ studies that got over 50 upvotes on LW.
Sorry if I’m being naive, but by this standard L. Ron Hubbard has been ‘validated’
I’ll tentatively accept that Dawes’ work has been spotty (I do suspect that there might be some side-effects from psychotherapy, not related to the main theories, that should have been picked up). My problem with Freud that some of his core theories (sexual desire for the mother being the prime example) might well be bunk (strongly suspect this due to evolution having no reason at all for such a thing), and he never cared to check.