Well, this quite metaphorical for a hard materialist … :-)
Were you under a misconception that materialists can’t use metaphors because they are not “sciency” enough?)
Additionally, I cannot compare “map” and territory, because I (subject) can only deal with different maps (I cannot access reality, wherever it means, directly), at most different internal representations of something I believe is “out there”.
True, the initial model is imperfect. But it’s a start. You can improve on it when you understand the initial framework. A model where you are writing your own map based on the other maps or even where you are locked in the infinite recursion of maps referencing other maps, without being able to access the territory in any other way than through a map. And still despite that, the maps can be made from the trees that grow on the territory.
I am only sure of the fact that I “consider”, “choose” and “have goals”. For the rest, it is only a hypothesis (quite persuasive for very similar organisms that also speak, and the more different from me the harder is to use analogy to assess sentience).
I think I understand your reasoning very well. And it seems obvious to me that if I managed to show you a counter example that I’m talking about, an entity about which I can be quite certain that it can “consider”, “choose” and “have goals” despite all the reasons that you brought up, you would have to accept that you made a mistake somewhere. But I want you to explicitly acknowledge this. Sorry for the annoyance, I promise that I’m not doing it just for my own amusement, that I expect it to be more helpful for your this way. So, please, say: “Yes, if you show me such an example it will falsify my theory”.
“ What if there was an entity that could consider possible futures conditional on its actions and choose one of them—suiting its goals the best, - and yet this entity completely lacked conscious experience? What properties of free will would such entity lack? Or do you believe that such entity is impossible in our universe (or even in any universe?) thus leaving the possibility for the falsification of your theory?”
I don’t think I am making a “theory”, but more an “interpretation”.
My position is that freedom is a property related to conscious experience, so as long as there is no conscience, my definition of freedom cannot be applied. Conscious choice is the basis of freedom. In fact, this is specially obvious, because my definition of freedom opens the door to moral responsibility, that obviously cannot exist with no conscience! What am I missing here?
Were you under a misconception that materialists can’t use metaphors because they are not “sciency” enough?)
True, the initial model is imperfect. But it’s a start. You can improve on it when you understand the initial framework. A model where you are writing your own map based on the other maps or even where you are locked in the infinite recursion of maps referencing other maps, without being able to access the territory in any other way than through a map. And still despite that, the maps can be made from the trees that grow on the territory.
I think I understand your reasoning very well. And it seems obvious to me that if I managed to show you a counter example that I’m talking about, an entity about which I can be quite certain that it can “consider”, “choose” and “have goals” despite all the reasons that you brought up, you would have to accept that you made a mistake somewhere. But I want you to explicitly acknowledge this. Sorry for the annoyance, I promise that I’m not doing it just for my own amusement, that I expect it to be more helpful for your this way. So, please, say: “Yes, if you show me such an example it will falsify my theory”.
“ What if there was an entity that could consider possible futures conditional on its actions and choose one of them—suiting its goals the best, - and yet this entity completely lacked conscious experience? What properties of free will would such entity lack? Or do you believe that such entity is impossible in our universe (or even in any universe?) thus leaving the possibility for the falsification of your theory?”
I don’t think I am making a “theory”, but more an “interpretation”.
My position is that freedom is a property related to conscious experience, so as long as there is no conscience, my definition of freedom cannot be applied. Conscious choice is the basis of freedom. In fact, this is specially obvious, because my definition of freedom opens the door to moral responsibility, that obviously cannot exist with no conscience! What am I missing here?