Thanks, a very interesting response. But what do you mean by “SJ” types? Actually the whole sentence “This article is construing actions taken to be issues SJ types are complaining about to be ones that are not serious or concerning” is a bit hard to parse though I think I understand all but “SJ types”.
Sorry, I meant social justice types, as in those identifying with the social justice movement.
And sorry about the general lack of clarity, my mind’s been feeling weird today. Basically, that the author is making it seem like people are making a big deal of out little issues, and I was trying to say that regardless of how severe you think these incidents are, there are probably worse ones that the author is ignoring.
There’s no need to be “extra-charitable” but it is helpful to give unbiased definitions of a group. If you want to then say “and I think that what they really act like is X” that’s a distinct step, but actively defining a political movement to be something that they would not self-identify as is heavily in the mind-killing territory.
Becuause that’s not a definition, that’s a description, and it builds into the situation a No-True-Scotsman situation into any dispute. It is therefore far more useful to keep distinct the self-identity of a movement and then state descriptively what the people who self-identify as such in practice act like.
It is therefore far more useful to keep distinct the self-identity of a movement and then state descriptively what the people who self-identify as such in practice act like.
Oookay then. Let’s look at my post. Here it is in its entirety:
SJ = Social Justice, a framework of looking at the world as a fight against omnipresent oppression, mostly by white men of everyone else.
Oh! You said “it is therefore far more useful to keep distinct the self-identity of a movement” and here it is:
SJ = Social Justice
and then you said “and then state descriptively what the people who self-identify as such in practice act like” and here it is:
a framework of looking at the world as a fight against omnipresent oppression, mostly by white men of everyone else.
So, remind me again what are you complaining about?
The objection is the phrasing of social justice as a ” framework of looking at the world as a fight against omnipresent oppression, mostly by white men of everyone else.” I’m in agreement that to a large extent that isn’t an inaccurate descriptor for much of passes for SJ. The mind-killing problem is to use that as the definition.
Thanks, a very interesting response. But what do you mean by “SJ” types? Actually the whole sentence “This article is construing actions taken to be issues SJ types are complaining about to be ones that are not serious or concerning” is a bit hard to parse though I think I understand all but “SJ types”.
Sorry, I meant social justice types, as in those identifying with the social justice movement.
And sorry about the general lack of clarity, my mind’s been feeling weird today. Basically, that the author is making it seem like people are making a big deal of out little issues, and I was trying to say that regardless of how severe you think these incidents are, there are probably worse ones that the author is ignoring.
SJ = Social Justice, a framework of looking at the world as a fight against omnipresent oppression, mostly by white men of everyone else.
It isn’t rationalism to to give the most uncharitable definition of a movement or group possible.
Oh, that’s not the “most uncharitable” definition by far. I can easily come up with much worse.
I happen to think my definition is correct and I don’t see any particular reason to be extra-charitable about it.
There’s no need to be “extra-charitable” but it is helpful to give unbiased definitions of a group. If you want to then say “and I think that what they really act like is X” that’s a distinct step, but actively defining a political movement to be something that they would not self-identify as is heavily in the mind-killing territory.
I disagree. I don’t see why a useful definition of a political movement has to match their self-identification.
Becuause that’s not a definition, that’s a description, and it builds into the situation a No-True-Scotsman situation into any dispute. It is therefore far more useful to keep distinct the self-identity of a movement and then state descriptively what the people who self-identify as such in practice act like.
Oookay then. Let’s look at my post. Here it is in its entirety:
Oh! You said “it is therefore far more useful to keep distinct the self-identity of a movement” and here it is:
and then you said “and then state descriptively what the people who self-identify as such in practice act like” and here it is:
So, remind me again what are you complaining about?
The objection is the phrasing of social justice as a ” framework of looking at the world as a fight against omnipresent oppression, mostly by white men of everyone else.” I’m in agreement that to a large extent that isn’t an inaccurate descriptor for much of passes for SJ. The mind-killing problem is to use that as the definition.
It’s not a definition, it’s an explanation in the context of someone asking “What does SJ mean?”