Just to add to this: Goebbels was perfectly right about the phenomenon of the Big Lie. If you repeat an argument—even a TERRIBLE argument—enough times, people will start to believe it. Exempli gratia:
‘Evolution is just a theory.’
‘Where are the transitional forms?’
‘Hurricane in a junkyard.’
There are the partisans of evolution by n.s. and then there are the partisans of creationism, and then there are the other 85% of people who are too busy getting their GED or feeding their kids or trying to make partner in the firm, to bother really thinking about these issues. A few exposures to an unchallenged, vaguely plausible-sounding meme are enough to put them in the ID camp (say), politically, for life. You are contributing to that irrationalist background noise!
Point taken. When forming a troll post, I make the arguments with the lowest ratio of length to “confusions one needs to disentangle in order to refute”. I use “isn’t evolution still basically just a theory at this point?” because it’s a slightly improved variant by that metric.
As with my other response, perhaps I could find the good-rationalist analog of this technique and optimize for that? Perhaps minimize the ratio of argument length to “confusions one needs to detour into to refute”?
I think part of what made me stray from “the path” was a tendency to root for the rhetorical “underdog” and be intrigued—excessively—with brilliant arguments that could defend ridiculous positions. I think I can turn that around here.
I think part of what made me stray from “the path” was a tendency to root for the rhetorical “underdog”...
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I enjoy arguing for the other side too, provided it’s disclaimed afterward. It’s a good way to see your rationalization machine shift into high gear. There is always a combination of lies, omissions, half-truths, special pleading and personal anecdotes that can convince at least a few people that you’re right—or, MUCH better, that your position should be respected.
But… rationality is usually the rhetorical underdog. Tssk! :P
...and be intrigued—excessively—with brilliant arguments that could defend ridiculous positions. I think I can turn that around here.
Want a brilliant argument defending a silly position? Try Plantinga’s evolutionary argument against naturalism. To ascend such lofty heights of obfuscation, bring lots of pressurized oxygen.
To wit:
-Evolution optimizes for survival value, not truth value in beliefs
-Beliefs are therefore adaptive but not necessarily true (you could, conceivably, believe that you should run away from a tiger because tigers like friendly footraces).
-Therefore, on naturalism, we should expect the reliability of our cognition to be low
-This means we should, if we accept naturalism, also accept that our cognitive apparatus is too flawed to have good reasons to accept naturalism. QED, atheist.
Just to add to this: Goebbels was perfectly right about the phenomenon of the Big Lie. If you repeat an argument—even a TERRIBLE argument—enough times, people will start to believe it. Exempli gratia:
‘Evolution is just a theory.’ ‘Where are the transitional forms?’ ‘Hurricane in a junkyard.’
There are the partisans of evolution by n.s. and then there are the partisans of creationism, and then there are the other 85% of people who are too busy getting their GED or feeding their kids or trying to make partner in the firm, to bother really thinking about these issues. A few exposures to an unchallenged, vaguely plausible-sounding meme are enough to put them in the ID camp (say), politically, for life. You are contributing to that irrationalist background noise!
Point taken. When forming a troll post, I make the arguments with the lowest ratio of length to “confusions one needs to disentangle in order to refute”. I use “isn’t evolution still basically just a theory at this point?” because it’s a slightly improved variant by that metric.
As with my other response, perhaps I could find the good-rationalist analog of this technique and optimize for that? Perhaps minimize the ratio of argument length to “confusions one needs to detour into to refute”?
I think part of what made me stray from “the path” was a tendency to root for the rhetorical “underdog” and be intrigued—excessively—with brilliant arguments that could defend ridiculous positions. I think I can turn that around here.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I enjoy arguing for the other side too, provided it’s disclaimed afterward. It’s a good way to see your rationalization machine shift into high gear. There is always a combination of lies, omissions, half-truths, special pleading and personal anecdotes that can convince at least a few people that you’re right—or, MUCH better, that your position should be respected.
But… rationality is usually the rhetorical underdog. Tssk! :P
Want a brilliant argument defending a silly position? Try Plantinga’s evolutionary argument against naturalism. To ascend such lofty heights of obfuscation, bring lots of pressurized oxygen.
To wit:
-Evolution optimizes for survival value, not truth value in beliefs
-Beliefs are therefore adaptive but not necessarily true (you could, conceivably, believe that you should run away from a tiger because tigers like friendly footraces).
-Therefore, on naturalism, we should expect the reliability of our cognition to be low
-This means we should, if we accept naturalism, also accept that our cognitive apparatus is too flawed to have good reasons to accept naturalism. QED, atheist.