It seems Kohlberg is primarily concerned with moral/cultural behaviour, what an individual may think is the right thing to do. Undeniably the desire to follow the group is strong. What is the relevance in the context of teaching rationality and scientific skepticism? No doubt, if your local environment teaches that science and rationality are weird and strange, and you’re a nerd for attempting it learn it, there exists social pressure against learning science. But I still can’t escape the fact that the great majority of people are attempting science and rationality in their daily lives, though with much less precision. The status quo can increase the barrier of entry for certain sects of knowledge, but people are still learning in their daily lives through their failures and experiences. I don’t see the relevance of a study on group based(tribe/political) thinking in the endeavour of trying to teach science and rationality; in effect trying to teach science and rationality is just trying to change the status quo of the group.
Undeniably the desire to follow the group is strong.
The study about cognitive stages points that they’re much stronger than a desire. They’re the way a person’s brain is wired at every point of their development. Someone at a stage ‘n’ literally feels, perceives and interacts the world that way. They may know, by descriptions from others, or, if they have a very high IQ, through observation of patterns in others, that others feel, perceive and interact with the world in different ways, but this is, for them, merely a piece of data, not something they can act upon, except for one instance: that of trying hard to grow into the stage immediately above one’s own. But there’s no guarantee of success in this, as it seems there are biological limitations to this. It’d be like trying hard to grow another 5 IQ points: unless you already have some untapped potential to do this, it simply isn’t possible.
What is the relevance in the context of teaching rationality and scientific skepticism?
This teaching would need to be split into at least 4 different layers: a new one for high IQ individuals at stage 2; another for individuals at stage 3; another for those at stage 4; and finally the current one, which is more appropriate for individuals at stage 5 -- which, incidentally, is the stage most rationalists are at, hence their bias in producing content mostly appropriate and convincing to others at their own stage.
(...) in effect trying to teach science and rationality is just trying to change the status quo of the group.
That’s precisely why it’s ineffective. Stages 5 and 6 comprise about 6% of the population. Therefore, even if current rationality teaching methods were perfectly effective, reaching and influencing all of its target audience, that’d mean a world with 6% of actual rationalists. Plus a varying contingent of stages 2 to 4 non-actually-rationalists “groupthink-influenced” by those rationalists in an indirect, ad hoc manner, rather than through actual rationality training and adoption, since such a direct approach, targeted at those stages, their strengths and weaknesses, is neither available, nor being pursued.
It seems Kohlberg is primarily concerned with moral/cultural behaviour, what an individual may think is the right thing to do. Undeniably the desire to follow the group is strong. What is the relevance in the context of teaching rationality and scientific skepticism? No doubt, if your local environment teaches that science and rationality are weird and strange, and you’re a nerd for attempting it learn it, there exists social pressure against learning science. But I still can’t escape the fact that the great majority of people are attempting science and rationality in their daily lives, though with much less precision. The status quo can increase the barrier of entry for certain sects of knowledge, but people are still learning in their daily lives through their failures and experiences. I don’t see the relevance of a study on group based(tribe/political) thinking in the endeavour of trying to teach science and rationality; in effect trying to teach science and rationality is just trying to change the status quo of the group.
The study about cognitive stages points that they’re much stronger than a desire. They’re the way a person’s brain is wired at every point of their development. Someone at a stage ‘n’ literally feels, perceives and interacts the world that way. They may know, by descriptions from others, or, if they have a very high IQ, through observation of patterns in others, that others feel, perceive and interact with the world in different ways, but this is, for them, merely a piece of data, not something they can act upon, except for one instance: that of trying hard to grow into the stage immediately above one’s own. But there’s no guarantee of success in this, as it seems there are biological limitations to this. It’d be like trying hard to grow another 5 IQ points: unless you already have some untapped potential to do this, it simply isn’t possible.
This teaching would need to be split into at least 4 different layers: a new one for high IQ individuals at stage 2; another for individuals at stage 3; another for those at stage 4; and finally the current one, which is more appropriate for individuals at stage 5 -- which, incidentally, is the stage most rationalists are at, hence their bias in producing content mostly appropriate and convincing to others at their own stage.
That’s precisely why it’s ineffective. Stages 5 and 6 comprise about 6% of the population. Therefore, even if current rationality teaching methods were perfectly effective, reaching and influencing all of its target audience, that’d mean a world with 6% of actual rationalists. Plus a varying contingent of stages 2 to 4 non-actually-rationalists “groupthink-influenced” by those rationalists in an indirect, ad hoc manner, rather than through actual rationality training and adoption, since such a direct approach, targeted at those stages, their strengths and weaknesses, is neither available, nor being pursued.