I cannot speak to the probabilities of others but I can give you an anecdote: me. I am dosing modafinil without a prescription (the deeper irony here is that I would actually qualify for one “on-label”). I studied the literature and ‘folk lore’ on the issue before making my decision.
If I am at all representative of a reasonable approximation of a rational ‘typical’ modern person, then I’d say that the probability is very high. (Then again, looking at how my comment history on LW has been treated that may not be a safe assumption.)
Piracetam, on the other hand, appears to have no discernable effect. I’m not even sure that placebo effect occurs; self-reported “diagnosis” of memory is a poor guide for comparing cognitive abilities—and no material test to my knowledge has demonstrated improved cognition as a result of dosing any of the ’racetams.
As to the “etc”—case by case basis, really. I know apocryphally (“truth in journalism”) there are many college students and postdocs who ‘abuse’ adderal.
It would if the reasons I were dosing were for the symptoms I qualify for the prescription for. I’ve been dosing adrafinil and modafinil for years (with off-periods); I’ve only qualified for the last three months.
As I noted; I regularly go through “off-periods”—two to three months once every six months or so—as a general precaution against potential liver damage as well as a test against dependency.
Right now my schedule of dosing is the daily recommended dose once a day for a three or four day period and then “off” for the other four or three unless other circumstances require me to skip sleep cycles (the qualifying condition in my case being sleep-shift disorder as I work 12-hour overnight shifts.)
If you were to assign a percentage of how much all around “better” you feel when you are on it, what would it be? For example 10% better than off? 20%,30%?
I am very frequently uncomfortable assigning percentages to non-inherently-numerical observations, as humans are notoriously poor judges of probability. That being said, the citation list and “external links” entry for Modafinil on Wikipedia is very extensive. It might also help to follow through with the same on Adrafinil, as the latter is less politicized at this point.
If you were to assign a percentage of how much all around “better” you feel when you are on it
tl;dr version of the below: It’s not about feeling “all around better”: it’s about having control over my productivity cycles, and being able to adapt to alternative cycles of alertness.
The thing about modafinil is that it does not produce euphoric sensation. It’s not that you “feel” anything in particular—if anything, the frequency of headaches (a common side effect) is greater so there’s a real argument that it makes you “feel” worse. In contrast, however, it also prevents the onset of mental and physical fatigue. Given the 12-hour metabolic half-life, this has a more prolongued noticeable impact than caffeine does (at least for me) in terms of whatever “pool of reserves” cognitive load drains; that is, it takes less effort to stay focused, and one experiences far less “grogginess”.
So in terms of allowing me the ability to retain alertness over prolonged periods without experiencing fatigue, it does very well. I have been known to go as long as five days without sleep (longest instance to date, there were external extenuating circumstances requiring this) without significant deleterious effects. Prolonged periods do require either escalating dosage or accepting decline in cognitive function (similar to being drunk; I’ve noticed a high correlation between how I behave after a 48 hour period and those with ‘a light buzz’ behave in terms of inhibition control and reflex response, aside from the window of peak onset from dosage).
Under my regular dosage regimen I frequently sleep roughly three hours per day on-dose and then for twelve hours the day after the dosage window, followed by “normal” behavior. This allows me, as a night-shift worker, to maintain a “regular” social life and permits me to adjust my sleep cycle at will, to the point of forgoing an individual cycle on occassion as I see fit.
First; there’s a reason why I myself am not dosing adderall or any other amphetamine.
Secondly; I haven’t known anyone that’s been a long-term user of adderall or any dextroamphetamines, but I do know people that have been using methamphetamines for as long as a decade.
Thirdly; the point remains that amphetamines as a class are widely seen as nootropic.
I did click on your link before, but I guess I did not really read it because I should have noted that the first sentence in that section states exactly my opinion on the issue.
Stimulants are often seen as smart drugs, but may be more accurately termed productivity enhancers. Some stimulants can enhance cognition and memory in some people, but cause psychosis in others.[citation needed] They generally have a very substantial side-effect profile and are not considered classical “nootropic” drugs.
I would guess you probably agree with regard to the side-effect profile and so maybe this just boils down to me being fussy about what they call a “classical nootropic”.
I would guess you probably agree with regard to the side-effect profile
Well, according to the longitudinal studies I’ve seen adderall dosing’s long-term effects in adults aren’t all that severe comparatively speaking. I wouldn’t dose it -- (I already have high blood pressure as it is, and unlike modafinil adderall is a genuine amphetamine). In general I’m rather leary of what I (inappropriately) refer to as “psychoactives”—that is, drugs that induce altered mental states (“highs”).
maybe this just boils down to me being fussy about what they call a “classical nootropic”.
As in, a pill that raises your IQ. Yeah, no such beast exists today.
I cannot speak to the probabilities of others but I can give you an anecdote: me. I am dosing modafinil without a prescription (the deeper irony here is that I would actually qualify for one “on-label”). I studied the literature and ‘folk lore’ on the issue before making my decision.
If I am at all representative of a reasonable approximation of a rational ‘typical’ modern person, then I’d say that the probability is very high. (Then again, looking at how my comment history on LW has been treated that may not be a safe assumption.)
Piracetam, on the other hand, appears to have no discernable effect. I’m not even sure that placebo effect occurs; self-reported “diagnosis” of memory is a poor guide for comparing cognitive abilities—and no material test to my knowledge has demonstrated improved cognition as a result of dosing any of the ’racetams.
As to the “etc”—case by case basis, really. I know apocryphally (“truth in journalism”) there are many college students and postdocs who ‘abuse’ adderal.
If you’d qualify for a prescription anyway, doesn’t that indicate that modafinil will do more good for you than others?
It would if the reasons I were dosing were for the symptoms I qualify for the prescription for. I’ve been dosing adrafinil and modafinil for years (with off-periods); I’ve only qualified for the last three months.
Given no other information, that suggests that using them has made you dependent on them.
As I noted; I regularly go through “off-periods”—two to three months once every six months or so—as a general precaution against potential liver damage as well as a test against dependency.
Right now my schedule of dosing is the daily recommended dose once a day for a three or four day period and then “off” for the other four or three unless other circumstances require me to skip sleep cycles (the qualifying condition in my case being sleep-shift disorder as I work 12-hour overnight shifts.)
Where would one go to read more about modafinil?
I have read Wikipedia and Erowid.
If you were to assign a percentage of how much all around “better” you feel when you are on it, what would it be? For example 10% better than off? 20%,30%?
I am very frequently uncomfortable assigning percentages to non-inherently-numerical observations, as humans are notoriously poor judges of probability. That being said, the citation list and “external links” entry for Modafinil on Wikipedia is very extensive. It might also help to follow through with the same on Adrafinil, as the latter is less politicized at this point.
tl;dr version of the below: It’s not about feeling “all around better”: it’s about having control over my productivity cycles, and being able to adapt to alternative cycles of alertness.
The thing about modafinil is that it does not produce euphoric sensation. It’s not that you “feel” anything in particular—if anything, the frequency of headaches (a common side effect) is greater so there’s a real argument that it makes you “feel” worse. In contrast, however, it also prevents the onset of mental and physical fatigue. Given the 12-hour metabolic half-life, this has a more prolongued noticeable impact than caffeine does (at least for me) in terms of whatever “pool of reserves” cognitive load drains; that is, it takes less effort to stay focused, and one experiences far less “grogginess”.
So in terms of allowing me the ability to retain alertness over prolonged periods without experiencing fatigue, it does very well. I have been known to go as long as five days without sleep (longest instance to date, there were external extenuating circumstances requiring this) without significant deleterious effects. Prolonged periods do require either escalating dosage or accepting decline in cognitive function (similar to being drunk; I’ve noticed a high correlation between how I behave after a 48 hour period and those with ‘a light buzz’ behave in terms of inhibition control and reflex response, aside from the window of peak onset from dosage).
Under my regular dosage regimen I frequently sleep roughly three hours per day on-dose and then for twelve hours the day after the dosage window, followed by “normal” behavior. This allows me, as a night-shift worker, to maintain a “regular” social life and permits me to adjust my sleep cycle at will, to the point of forgoing an individual cycle on occassion as I see fit.
Not sure that is really equivalent; adderall is an amphetamine.
Amphetamines are widely seen as nootropic.
Have you known many long-term users?
First; there’s a reason why I myself am not dosing adderall or any other amphetamine.
Secondly; I haven’t known anyone that’s been a long-term user of adderall or any dextroamphetamines, but I do know people that have been using methamphetamines for as long as a decade.
Thirdly; the point remains that amphetamines as a class are widely seen as nootropic.
I did click on your link before, but I guess I did not really read it because I should have noted that the first sentence in that section states exactly my opinion on the issue.
I would guess you probably agree with regard to the side-effect profile and so maybe this just boils down to me being fussy about what they call a “classical nootropic”.
Well, according to the longitudinal studies I’ve seen adderall dosing’s long-term effects in adults aren’t all that severe comparatively speaking. I wouldn’t dose it -- (I already have high blood pressure as it is, and unlike modafinil adderall is a genuine amphetamine). In general I’m rather leary of what I (inappropriately) refer to as “psychoactives”—that is, drugs that induce altered mental states (“highs”).
As in, a pill that raises your IQ. Yeah, no such beast exists today.