I suspect this view is shared by most of this community, although I haven’t seen any discussion of it.
Why do you suspect this, despite your avowed lack of evidence bearing on the matter?
The Wikipedia article gives the theoretical argument against, which is basic microeconomics, and some empirical studies on the matter, and describes some alternatives. The studies are all statistical and appear to be of marginal significance, making relevant the now well-known criticism of medical studies.
Does anyone have anything to add beyond that article?
Why do you suspect this, despite your avowed lack of evidence bearing on the matter?
2 reasons:
1) Due to a general correlation between the views I have seen displayed here, and the views of those I know are supportive of minimum wage laws
2) Because
a) I view this community as more-rational-than-average and
b) I have not yet been exposed to many arguments against the minimum wage that were not either irrational, or based on completely different moral principles to those I have seen here.
Obviously, by posting this discussion post, I hope to discover whether my beliefs are inaccurate, by deliberating exposing myself to more rational arguments AGAINST the concept.
Interestingly, I had the exact opposite intuition as you. I saw basic economics as suggesting minimum wages were not a great idea, and I saw this community as being more versed in economics than average.
I have not yet been exposed to many arguments against the minimum wage that were not either irrational, or based on completely different moral principles to those I have seen here.
RichardKennaway just gave you a link containing economic discussions about minimum wage, doesn’t that count? Or does that fall under “completely different moral principles”?
I don’t think you can tell much about someone’s rationality from the views he holds—a more important factor is how he reached those views (peer pressure? confirmation bias? signaling?), how much he is willing to change them upon encountering new evidence (see One Argument Against An Army), etc.
RichardKennaway just gave you a link containing economic discussions about minimum wage, doesn’t that count? Or does that fall under “completely different moral principles”?
I responded prior to reading that link, as I had posted that statement prior to being sent to that link. Giving myself additional time to fabricate a reason for my statement would seem disingenuous.
Provisionally, some of the arguments seem to fit in those categories, but others may not.
Unfortunately, there’s not really much in the way of support for many of the claims, due to the fact it’s Wikipedia, and full arguments are never likely to be presented there. So I’m going to follow some of the links.
I don’t think you can tell much about someone’s rationality from the views he holds—a more important factor is how he reached those views
Indeed, but it is not simply the views, but observing the debate patterns, that has made me believe this site to be at least slightly more rational than average.
Hence, when seeking rational reasons to abandon a belief that I know may be irrational, I decided this was a good port of call.
I responded prior to reading that link, as I had posted that statement prior to being sent to that link. Giving myself additional time to fabricate a reason for my statement would seem disingenuous.
That makes sense; I had interpreted the conversation more like:
-- “I never saw a good argument against minimum wage”
-- “Well, here’s a complex economics analysis on Wikipedia that points some theoretical problems with minimum wage”
-- “Hmm, I still haven’t seen a good argument against minimum wage.”
On minimum wage, my personal position is to suspend judgement until I take the time to understand the economics (which are complicated) and the ethics (which are complicated in a different way). Seems that economics analysis indicates that minimum wage is overall negative, but that the actual data doesn’t confirm what the theory predicted. I don’t feel a very strong need to decide that one side is wrong and one side is right, and am satisfied with staying somewhat ignorant until I have the time and need to dig deeper into the problem (so this thread is somewhat interesting).
Why do you suspect this, despite your avowed lack of evidence bearing on the matter?
The Wikipedia article gives the theoretical argument against, which is basic microeconomics, and some empirical studies on the matter, and describes some alternatives. The studies are all statistical and appear to be of marginal significance, making relevant the now well-known criticism of medical studies.
Does anyone have anything to add beyond that article?
2 reasons:
1) Due to a general correlation between the views I have seen displayed here, and the views of those I know are supportive of minimum wage laws
2) Because a) I view this community as more-rational-than-average and b) I have not yet been exposed to many arguments against the minimum wage that were not either irrational, or based on completely different moral principles to those I have seen here.
Obviously, by posting this discussion post, I hope to discover whether my beliefs are inaccurate, by deliberating exposing myself to more rational arguments AGAINST the concept.
Interestingly, I had the exact opposite intuition as you. I saw basic economics as suggesting minimum wages were not a great idea, and I saw this community as being more versed in economics than average.
I had the exact opposite intuition because I expected lots of people here to have a reasonable exposure to economics.
RichardKennaway just gave you a link containing economic discussions about minimum wage, doesn’t that count? Or does that fall under “completely different moral principles”?
I don’t think you can tell much about someone’s rationality from the views he holds—a more important factor is how he reached those views (peer pressure? confirmation bias? signaling?), how much he is willing to change them upon encountering new evidence (see One Argument Against An Army), etc.
I responded prior to reading that link, as I had posted that statement prior to being sent to that link. Giving myself additional time to fabricate a reason for my statement would seem disingenuous.
Provisionally, some of the arguments seem to fit in those categories, but others may not. Unfortunately, there’s not really much in the way of support for many of the claims, due to the fact it’s Wikipedia, and full arguments are never likely to be presented there. So I’m going to follow some of the links.
Indeed, but it is not simply the views, but observing the debate patterns, that has made me believe this site to be at least slightly more rational than average.
Hence, when seeking rational reasons to abandon a belief that I know may be irrational, I decided this was a good port of call.
That makes sense; I had interpreted the conversation more like:
-- “I never saw a good argument against minimum wage”
-- “Well, here’s a complex economics analysis on Wikipedia that points some theoretical problems with minimum wage”
-- “Hmm, I still haven’t seen a good argument against minimum wage.”
On minimum wage, my personal position is to suspend judgement until I take the time to understand the economics (which are complicated) and the ethics (which are complicated in a different way). Seems that economics analysis indicates that minimum wage is overall negative, but that the actual data doesn’t confirm what the theory predicted. I don’t feel a very strong need to decide that one side is wrong and one side is right, and am satisfied with staying somewhat ignorant until I have the time and need to dig deeper into the problem (so this thread is somewhat interesting).