Let me clarify. If a group decides that it wants X, this does not imply that the individual member of that group wants X. What they usually want is to avoid work and let other’s do it or be told what to do. But if they agree upon the strategy “To achieve X, we agree that every member has to want X and, if he is capable, do X” (rather than “To achieve X, one leader tells everyone what to do”), then things would get done!
Ah, I think we need a more detailed model of what it means to want something. What a person says they want, what they think they want, and what they actually want at any given moment may differ. As verbal manipulators, humans tend to focus on what is said, but it’s hard to see how that’s actually the correct one.
If a group decided that it wants X, and the individual member doesn’t want X enough to actually do it, the definition of “decided” seems to be in question. Maybe some members want X more than others.
(yes, I’m being a bit intentionally obtuse. I do want to be explicit when we’re talking about coercion of others in order to meet your goals, as opposed to examining our own goals and beliefs. )
In do-ocracies, generally the ‘revealed preferences’ of the group members is pretty obvious. The things the ‘group wants’ are readily revealed to be those things that the group members actually act to achieve or acquire.
And, as a matter of how do-ocracies form initially, they typically ‘accrete’ around a single person or a small group of people that are already actively working on something. Think of a small open source programming project. Usually the project is started by a single person and whatever they actually work on is what they ‘want’ to work on. Often, when other people suggest changes, the initial person (who is likely still the ‘project leader’) will respond along the lines of “Pull requests welcome!”, which is basically equivalent to “Feel free to work on the changes yourself and send them to me to review.”. And, sometimes, a new contributor will work on the changes first, before even discussing the possibility. And then, after submitting the changes to review, the project leader or other participants might object to the changes, but, by default, anyone is free to make changes themselves (tho typically not anyone can actually make changes directly to the ‘authoritative version’).
Let me clarify. If a group decides that it wants X, this does not imply that the individual member of that group wants X. What they usually want is to avoid work and let other’s do it or be told what to do. But if they agree upon the strategy “To achieve X, we agree that every member has to want X and, if he is capable, do X” (rather than “To achieve X, one leader tells everyone what to do”), then things would get done!
Ah, I think we need a more detailed model of what it means to want something. What a person says they want, what they think they want, and what they actually want at any given moment may differ. As verbal manipulators, humans tend to focus on what is said, but it’s hard to see how that’s actually the correct one.
If a group decided that it wants X, and the individual member doesn’t want X enough to actually do it, the definition of “decided” seems to be in question. Maybe some members want X more than others.
(yes, I’m being a bit intentionally obtuse. I do want to be explicit when we’re talking about coercion of others in order to meet your goals, as opposed to examining our own goals and beliefs. )
In do-ocracies, generally the ‘revealed preferences’ of the group members is pretty obvious. The things the ‘group wants’ are readily revealed to be those things that the group members actually act to achieve or acquire.
And, as a matter of how do-ocracies form initially, they typically ‘accrete’ around a single person or a small group of people that are already actively working on something. Think of a small open source programming project. Usually the project is started by a single person and whatever they actually work on is what they ‘want’ to work on. Often, when other people suggest changes, the initial person (who is likely still the ‘project leader’) will respond along the lines of “Pull requests welcome!”, which is basically equivalent to “Feel free to work on the changes yourself and send them to me to review.”. And, sometimes, a new contributor will work on the changes first, before even discussing the possibility. And then, after submitting the changes to review, the project leader or other participants might object to the changes, but, by default, anyone is free to make changes themselves (tho typically not anyone can actually make changes directly to the ‘authoritative version’).