It is not really about you, it is about your views. You have reached out to me with a DM, to my initial post questioning whose beautiful world this is, after seeing/reflecting recent events about rape and various outrageous wars, and you seem to try to convince me those are not as important as AI safety.
It is not you do not embrace “my goals”, but seems but you believe , “working on addressing rape or war would be distractions to AI safety risks”.
You also do seem have a worrisome misinterpretation of what rape is. You have mentioned that “Since rape is a side effect of erotic excitement, and so removing rape would mean removing erotic excitement.” This claim is wrong. First of all rape is about power, and limited relation to erotic excitement. This view on “erotic excitement” is very perpetrator-centric. At best you could compare with murder, but I would argue it is worse than murder because the person enjoys humiliating another human. Removing rape does not mean removing erotic excitement.
And actually, if some of these “short term” issues are not worked on, these issues will likely be forever distractions/barriers, to these populations and family/friends of these population (at some point anyone could be a part of that population), on anything including their own lives, and their life goals (maybe AI safety).
[Edited: If people collectively believe this, there will be naturally more acceptance towards the harm one human does to another, because they would think “it is a part of the human nature”.]
I may have reached the point where I can crystallize my position into a few clear propositions:
First: I doubt the capacity of human beings using purely human methods like culture and the law, to 100% abolish any of these things. Reduce their frequency and their impact, yes.
Second: I believe the era in which the world is governed by “human beings using purely human methods” is rapidly coming to a close anyway, because of the rise of AI. Rather than the human condition being perfected in a triumph of good over evil, we are on track to be transformed and/or relegated to a minor role in the drama of being, in favor of new entities with quite different dispositions and concerns.
Third: I am not a sexologist or a criminologist, but I have serious doubts about an attempt to abolish rape, that wants to focus only on power and not on sexuality. I gather that this can be a good mindset for a recovering survivor, and any serious conversation on the topic of rape will necessarily touch on both power and sexuality anyway. But we’re talking abolition here, a condition that has never existed historically. As long as humanity contains beastly individuals who are simply indifferent to sympathy or seduction, and as long as some men and women drive enjoyment from playing out beastly scenarios, the ingredients will be there for rape to occur. That’s how it appears to me.
(Mentioned some of these in our chat, but allow me to be repetitive)
On first: I don’t think efforts to reduce rape or discrimination needs 100% abolition, but working towards that currently has huge return at this point of history. Humans should have self controls, and understand consents, and enforcing these would also solve the problem completely if that needs to achieve 100%. Education has snowball effect as well. Just because it is hard to achieve 100%, does not mean there should not be efforts, nor impossible at all. In fact, it is something that is rarely worked on alone; for example, one strategy might actually be to bring up education generally, or economic disparity, and during this process, teach people how to respect other people.
On second: We likely need good value system to align AI on, otherwise, the only alignment AI would know is probably not to overpower the most powerful human. But that does not seem to be the successful outcome of “aligned AI”. I think there are a few posts recently on this as well.
Third: I have seen many people having this confusion/mixed up: rape play/bdsm is consensual, and the definition of rape is non-consensual. Rape is purely about going against the person’s will. If you view it as murder it might be more comparable, but in this case, it is historically one group on to another group due to biological features and power differences that people cannot easily change on, though also a lot of men to men. In my view, it is worse than murder because it is extreme suffering, and that suffering will carry through the victims’ whole lives, and many may end with suicide anyways.
Otherwise, I am glad to see you thinking about these and open to discussion.
It is not really about you, it is about your views. You have reached out to me with a DM, to my initial post questioning whose beautiful world this is, after seeing/reflecting recent events about rape and various outrageous wars, and you seem to try to convince me those are not as important as AI safety.
It is not you do not embrace “my goals”, but seems but you believe , “working on addressing rape or war would be distractions to AI safety risks”.
You also do seem have a worrisome misinterpretation of what rape is. You have mentioned that “Since rape is a side effect of erotic excitement, and so removing rape would mean removing erotic excitement.” This claim is wrong. First of all rape is about power, and limited relation to erotic excitement. This view on “erotic excitement” is very perpetrator-centric. At best you could compare with murder, but I would argue it is worse than murder because the person enjoys humiliating another human. Removing rape does not mean removing erotic excitement.
And actually, if some of these “short term” issues are not worked on, these issues will likely be forever distractions/barriers, to these populations and family/friends of these population (at some point anyone could be a part of that population), on anything including their own lives, and their life goals (maybe AI safety).
[Edited: If people collectively believe this, there will be naturally more acceptance towards the harm one human does to another, because they would think “it is a part of the human nature”.]
I may have reached the point where I can crystallize my position into a few clear propositions:
First: I doubt the capacity of human beings using purely human methods like culture and the law, to 100% abolish any of these things. Reduce their frequency and their impact, yes.
Second: I believe the era in which the world is governed by “human beings using purely human methods” is rapidly coming to a close anyway, because of the rise of AI. Rather than the human condition being perfected in a triumph of good over evil, we are on track to be transformed and/or relegated to a minor role in the drama of being, in favor of new entities with quite different dispositions and concerns.
Third: I am not a sexologist or a criminologist, but I have serious doubts about an attempt to abolish rape, that wants to focus only on power and not on sexuality. I gather that this can be a good mindset for a recovering survivor, and any serious conversation on the topic of rape will necessarily touch on both power and sexuality anyway. But we’re talking abolition here, a condition that has never existed historically. As long as humanity contains beastly individuals who are simply indifferent to sympathy or seduction, and as long as some men and women drive enjoyment from playing out beastly scenarios, the ingredients will be there for rape to occur. That’s how it appears to me.
(Mentioned some of these in our chat, but allow me to be repetitive)
On first: I don’t think efforts to reduce rape or discrimination needs 100% abolition, but working towards that currently has huge return at this point of history. Humans should have self controls, and understand consents, and enforcing these would also solve the problem completely if that needs to achieve 100%. Education has snowball effect as well. Just because it is hard to achieve 100%, does not mean there should not be efforts, nor impossible at all. In fact, it is something that is rarely worked on alone; for example, one strategy might actually be to bring up education generally, or economic disparity, and during this process, teach people how to respect other people.
On second: We likely need good value system to align AI on, otherwise, the only alignment AI would know is probably not to overpower the most powerful human. But that does not seem to be the successful outcome of “aligned AI”. I think there are a few posts recently on this as well.
Third: I have seen many people having this confusion/mixed up: rape play/bdsm is consensual, and the definition of rape is non-consensual. Rape is purely about going against the person’s will. If you view it as murder it might be more comparable, but in this case, it is historically one group on to another group due to biological features and power differences that people cannot easily change on, though also a lot of men to men. In my view, it is worse than murder because it is extreme suffering, and that suffering will carry through the victims’ whole lives, and many may end with suicide anyways.
Otherwise, I am glad to see you thinking about these and open to discussion.