Most effects of testosterone are permanent; do testosterone blockers reduce crime? Probably, since aggression and high sex drive are among the temporary effects.
Way too little is known about large hormonal alterations. What is known is that hormone replacement therapy can make people very happy, which vaguely suggests that giving T blockers to most men could make them miserable. (Then again we’re not suggesting adding estrogen, so the comparison doesn’t hold.)
In the early days of LW there was an eunuch who wouldn’t shut up about how great T blockers were. N=1 study powered by selection bias.
Castration works very well to reduce violent behavior based on the research I read. I didn’t spend months researching this, but I went through a lot of information, and reducing testosterone was the most effective thing they had tried.
which vaguely suggests that giving T blockers to most men could make them miserable
Or could help them in the event that their testosterone is ten times the level of non-violent inmates, which was the case in one of the studies I read. It was so effective that I wonder why they’re not using it. One bottleneck that has been proposed is that people perceive testosterone reduction as unhealthy or as a thing that would depersonalize a man by reducing his manliness. In light of this, it’s interesting that you reacted to my comments about high testosterone and chemical imbalance with the idea that giving testosterone blockers to most men would make them miserable. That’s irrelevant because most men don’t need them. Only the ones who have such unusually high testosterone that it significantly raises the risk of criminal violence, or for some other health reason qualifies as excessive / qualifies as a chemical imbalance should be prescribed testosterone blockers.
Now I’m wondering if the reason people don’t use testosterone blockers might be because people are, for some reason, afraid that it would be prescribed to most men.
I wish I had known there was a place where people appreciated this type of nerdy-yet-un-credentialed dip into subjects. I’d have made a site similar to Gwern’s. Alas, my research findings are not written up and my citations are scattered throughout things like bookmark backups from old OS installs.
it’s interesting that you reacted to my comments about high testosterone and chemical imbalance with the idea that giving testosterone blockers to most men would make them miserable
I said that because I didn’t know how large the difference was, or whether the idea was to target a class of particularly high-T violent criminals or to douse anyone in prison regardless of previous T levels. I’m also slightly afraid that the implementation will tilt toward the latter.
One bottleneck that has been proposed is that people perceive testosterone reduction as unhealthy
Screwing around with hormones is risky. The pill has a lot of health risks, so do T injections, supplementing menopausal women turned out to be a terrible idea. But that just points to “test it and see what happens”.
or as a thing that would depersonalize a man by reducing his manliness
Well, duh. It’s the point.
This ties into a deeper fear: you can fine me, jail me, whip me, send me to the mines, but I’ll still be me. (Inasmuch as the distinction between personality and environment is valid.) When you start controlling mood-affecting chemicals, you’re taking away my freedom of thought in a very real sense. I do think that the human rights infringement to social benefits ratio is better than for prisons, but it’s not a negligible cost.
As selfish castration anxiety analogues go, I don’t know if “We, not you, decide to mess with your hormones” and “You don’t really need T” outbalance “Messing with hormones is normal” and “All hormones in moderation”.
Most effects of testosterone are permanent; do testosterone blockers reduce crime? Probably, since aggression and high sex drive are among the temporary effects.
Way too little is known about large hormonal alterations. What is known is that hormone replacement therapy can make people very happy, which vaguely suggests that giving T blockers to most men could make them miserable. (Then again we’re not suggesting adding estrogen, so the comparison doesn’t hold.)
In the early days of LW there was an eunuch who wouldn’t shut up about how great T blockers were. N=1 study powered by selection bias.
Castration works very well to reduce violent behavior based on the research I read. I didn’t spend months researching this, but I went through a lot of information, and reducing testosterone was the most effective thing they had tried.
Or could help them in the event that their testosterone is ten times the level of non-violent inmates, which was the case in one of the studies I read. It was so effective that I wonder why they’re not using it. One bottleneck that has been proposed is that people perceive testosterone reduction as unhealthy or as a thing that would depersonalize a man by reducing his manliness. In light of this, it’s interesting that you reacted to my comments about high testosterone and chemical imbalance with the idea that giving testosterone blockers to most men would make them miserable. That’s irrelevant because most men don’t need them. Only the ones who have such unusually high testosterone that it significantly raises the risk of criminal violence, or for some other health reason qualifies as excessive / qualifies as a chemical imbalance should be prescribed testosterone blockers.
Now I’m wondering if the reason people don’t use testosterone blockers might be because people are, for some reason, afraid that it would be prescribed to most men.
I wish I had known there was a place where people appreciated this type of nerdy-yet-un-credentialed dip into subjects. I’d have made a site similar to Gwern’s. Alas, my research findings are not written up and my citations are scattered throughout things like bookmark backups from old OS installs.
I said that because I didn’t know how large the difference was, or whether the idea was to target a class of particularly high-T violent criminals or to douse anyone in prison regardless of previous T levels. I’m also slightly afraid that the implementation will tilt toward the latter.
Screwing around with hormones is risky. The pill has a lot of health risks, so do T injections, supplementing menopausal women turned out to be a terrible idea. But that just points to “test it and see what happens”.
Well, duh. It’s the point.
This ties into a deeper fear: you can fine me, jail me, whip me, send me to the mines, but I’ll still be me. (Inasmuch as the distinction between personality and environment is valid.) When you start controlling mood-affecting chemicals, you’re taking away my freedom of thought in a very real sense. I do think that the human rights infringement to social benefits ratio is better than for prisons, but it’s not a negligible cost.
As selfish castration anxiety analogues go, I don’t know if “We, not you, decide to mess with your hormones” and “You don’t really need T” outbalance “Messing with hormones is normal” and “All hormones in moderation”.