But if the other person(s) is/are your parent(s), it might somewhat difficult to signal “genuine curiosity” about their views, especially considering that these sorts of arguments generally arise because because the child said or did something the parents didn’t approve of, e.g. became atheistic, admitted to homosexuality, etc. If you grew up in the same household as them, then you’ve been absorbing their viewpoints your entire life, and they know you’ve been exposed to their viewpoints all your life. So from their perspective, it’s hardly going to sound realistic if you try to express “curiosity” about views that you should damn well already be familiar with. Somehow I don’t think “Oh, hey, Mom, Dad, I’ve been introspecting, and I think I’m gay—but I know you think that sort of thing is bad, so now I’m curious why” is going to help defuse the situation.
Somehow I don’t think “Oh, hey, Mom, Dad, I’ve been introspecting, and I think I’m gay—but I know you think that sort of thing is bad, so now I’m curious why” is going to help defuse the situation.
You don’t have to ask the question that way. You can ask questions like: “Did you ever had a gay friend?”, “Did the intensity of your views on the subject change over time? How have they been when you where a child?”
I think you’re seriously underestimating the power of motivated cognition. If they’re in argument mode, it doesn’t matter how reasonable you sound or how politely you phrase your questions, because their goal isn’t to clarify a point or to reach an agreement; it’s to forcibly make you give up your position. It’s as Error put it in the actual post:
When your theist parents ask you, “What? Why would you believe that?! We should talk about this,” they do not actually want to know why you believe anything, despite the form of the question. There is no genuine curiosity there. They are instead looking for ammunition.
Trying to use reasoned discussion tactics against people who’ve made up their minds already isn’t going to get you anywhere, and if you’re unlucky, it might actually be interpreted as backtalk, especially if the people you’re arguing against have higher social status than you do—like, for instance, your parents. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the truth. And believe me when I say that I have met people like this in real life. The experience was not pleasant.
Trying to use reasoned discussion tactics against people who’ve made up their minds already isn’t going to get you anywhere, and if you’re unlucky, it might actually be interpreted as backtalk, especially if the people you’re arguing against have higher social status than you do—like, for instance, your parents.
At times being more reasonable and more ‘mature’ sounding in conversation style even seems to be more offensive. It’s treating them like you are their social equal and intellectual superior.
if you’re unlucky, it might actually be interpreted as backtalk, especially if the people you’re arguing against have higher social status than you do—like, for instance, your parents.
Status is earned. If you don’t fight for your own views than you have very little of it. If you however stand up for yourself you can get away with more.
Okay, let me put it this way: are you going to deliberately get into an argument with (say) your boss? Maybe if you’re fortunate enough to have a really understanding boss, but in general, getting into arguments with people in higher positions of power (and thus with greater social status) is not a good idea.
I’m not advocating getting into an argument. I’m speaking about asking another person for their life experiences, in this case about asking a parent.
And I’m not disagreeing with that. The problem arises when the person being asked the questions perceives it as an attack on their status, and then retaliates. Some parents don’t take well to being questioned, like, at all. When that happens, you’ve got yourself a Hostile Arguer. And then it’s best to just cut your losses.
In cases like this there no real way to cut the losses. You do have an ongoing relationship with your parents and you are paying a price the next time because they will expect you to fold the same way.
To me, any argument always comes back to the Seven Habits principle: “Seek to understand before you seek to be underdstood.”
Hostile argumentation can quickly be defused if you show genuine curiosity about the other persons views.
But if the other person(s) is/are your parent(s), it might somewhat difficult to signal “genuine curiosity” about their views, especially considering that these sorts of arguments generally arise because because the child said or did something the parents didn’t approve of, e.g. became atheistic, admitted to homosexuality, etc. If you grew up in the same household as them, then you’ve been absorbing their viewpoints your entire life, and they know you’ve been exposed to their viewpoints all your life. So from their perspective, it’s hardly going to sound realistic if you try to express “curiosity” about views that you should damn well already be familiar with. Somehow I don’t think “Oh, hey, Mom, Dad, I’ve been introspecting, and I think I’m gay—but I know you think that sort of thing is bad, so now I’m curious why” is going to help defuse the situation.
You don’t have to ask the question that way. You can ask questions like: “Did you ever had a gay friend?”, “Did the intensity of your views on the subject change over time? How have they been when you where a child?”
I think you’re seriously underestimating the power of motivated cognition. If they’re in argument mode, it doesn’t matter how reasonable you sound or how politely you phrase your questions, because their goal isn’t to clarify a point or to reach an agreement; it’s to forcibly make you give up your position. It’s as Error put it in the actual post:
Trying to use reasoned discussion tactics against people who’ve made up their minds already isn’t going to get you anywhere, and if you’re unlucky, it might actually be interpreted as backtalk, especially if the people you’re arguing against have higher social status than you do—like, for instance, your parents. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the truth. And believe me when I say that I have met people like this in real life. The experience was not pleasant.
At times being more reasonable and more ‘mature’ sounding in conversation style even seems to be more offensive. It’s treating them like you are their social equal and intellectual superior.
Status is earned. If you don’t fight for your own views than you have very little of it. If you however stand up for yourself you can get away with more.
Okay, let me put it this way: are you going to deliberately get into an argument with (say) your boss? Maybe if you’re fortunate enough to have a really understanding boss, but in general, getting into arguments with people in higher positions of power (and thus with greater social status) is not a good idea.
I’m not advocating getting into an argument. I’m speaking about asking another person for their life experiences, in this case about asking a parent.
Teenagers fighting for more power and self-determination is a quite natural part of puberty.
And I’m not disagreeing with that. The problem arises when the person being asked the questions perceives it as an attack on their status, and then retaliates. Some parents don’t take well to being questioned, like, at all. When that happens, you’ve got yourself a Hostile Arguer. And then it’s best to just cut your losses.
In cases like this there no real way to cut the losses. You do have an ongoing relationship with your parents and you are paying a price the next time because they will expect you to fold the same way.