In practice, most people inspired by Objectivism have not been able to achieve the sort of things that Rand and her heroes achieved. As far as I can tell, other than Rand herself, no dogmatic Objectivists have done so. Most strikingly, the most influential Objectivist came to head the Federal Reserve Bank. Given this, I conclude that Objectivism isn’t the stuff that makes you win, so it’s not rationality. That said, I’m very interested in discussing rationality with reflective people who ARE trying to win.
“Given this, I conclude that Objectivism isn’t the stuff that makes you win, so it’s not rationality.”
Do you think it is worthwhile to find out where exactly their rationality broke down to avoid a similar outcome here? How would you characterize ‘winning’ exactly?
Winning = FAI before UFAI, though there are lots of sub-goals to that.
It’s definitely worth understanding where other people’s rationality breaks down, but I think I understand it reasonably well, both in terms of general principles and the specific history of Objectivism, which has been pretty well documented. We do have a huge amount of written material on rationality breaking down and I think I know rather more than we have published. Major points include Rand’s disinterest in science, especially science that felt mystical to her like modern physics or hypnosis, and her failure to notice her foundational confusions and respond with due skepticism to long inferential chains built on them.
That said, I’d be happy to discuss the topic with Nathaniel Branden some time if he’s interested in doing so. I’m sure that his life experience would contribute usefully to my understanding and that it isn’t all found in existing bodies of literature either.
To be clear, MV, are you saying that for you or others with a similar Ultimate Value winning is defined that way? I was under the impression that Winning meant more generally “achieving that which is beyond rationality and which motivates its use,” around here.
In practice, most people inspired by Objectivism have not been able to achieve the sort of things that Rand and her heroes achieved. As far as I can tell, other than Rand herself, no dogmatic Objectivists have done so. Most strikingly, the most influential Objectivist came to head the Federal Reserve Bank. Given this, I conclude that Objectivism isn’t the stuff that makes you win, so it’s not rationality. That said, I’m very interested in discussing rationality with reflective people who ARE trying to win.
“Given this, I conclude that Objectivism isn’t the stuff that makes you win, so it’s not rationality.”
Do you think it is worthwhile to find out where exactly their rationality broke down to avoid a similar outcome here? How would you characterize ‘winning’ exactly?
Winning = FAI before UFAI, though there are lots of sub-goals to that.
It’s definitely worth understanding where other people’s rationality breaks down, but I think I understand it reasonably well, both in terms of general principles and the specific history of Objectivism, which has been pretty well documented. We do have a huge amount of written material on rationality breaking down and I think I know rather more than we have published. Major points include Rand’s disinterest in science, especially science that felt mystical to her like modern physics or hypnosis, and her failure to notice her foundational confusions and respond with due skepticism to long inferential chains built on them.
That said, I’d be happy to discuss the topic with Nathaniel Branden some time if he’s interested in doing so. I’m sure that his life experience would contribute usefully to my understanding and that it isn’t all found in existing bodies of literature either.
To be clear, MV, are you saying that for you or others with a similar Ultimate Value winning is defined that way? I was under the impression that Winning meant more generally “achieving that which is beyond rationality and which motivates its use,” around here.