I approve of the general goals behind this post. Affection is great! That said, it sounds kind of like it was written on ecstasy. And I’m not sure the exact approach will work generally. #3 in particular is a little badly worded—how far over one’s limits is one expected to tolerate encroachment? How many times?
I think it makes sense to consider what we want to use from ask culture versus guess culture here. If I like and want to hug everyone at a gathering except one person, and that one person asks for a hug after I’ve hugged all the other people and deliberately not hugged them, that’s gonna be awkward no matter what norms we have unless I have a reason like “you have sprouted venomous spines”. But if someone I’m perfectly comfortable with longs longingly to pet my long hair, and doesn’t ask, this is indeed a sadly missed gain. Because my hair is awesome.
I approve of the general goals behind this post. Affection is great! That said, it sounds kind of like it was written on ecstasy. And I’m not sure the exact approach will work generally.
That’s an excellent summary.
For my part I’d never dream of saying or declaring implementation of anything remotely like such a protocol. Heck, I might consider saying something as gushy sounding as “#1” to a partner I had been dating for 6 months but even then I’d use phrasing that was a bit more mutual and engaging and sounded less like “I’m a Needy Carebear”.
But abhorrence to making any declaration myself aside I have no particular problem with interacting with others who were trying to implement such a protocol. If Nyan (or someone else who isn’t a jackass) really wants a hug then sure, I’ll give him a hug. To be honest I don’t know what else he has in mind with his whole “loving relationships” and “optimal affection” idea. I suppose he can hold my hand if he wants to. Whatever, I hear they do that sort of thing in other cultures.
#3 in particular is a little badly worded—how far over one’s limits is one expected to tolerate encroachment? How many times?
I am also fortunate in as much as when I am the recipient of an excessive amount of not particularly welcome affection it feels weird and peculiar—similar to if someone started making faces and speaking nonsense—but not threateningly unpleasant and creepy. It no doubt helps a bit that my instincts aren’t warning me that I am at risk of being involuntarily impregnated by a low quality mate. Even with this being the case I wouldn’t be so cavalier in giving licence to encroach my limits so I can imagine that #3 would cause all sorts of problems for a lot of people.
And I’m not sure the exact approach will work generally. #3 in particular is a little badly worded—how far over one’s limits is one expected to tolerate encroachment? How many times?
More testing! I guess if I tell someone not to do something, and they do it again, that’s no good.
If I like and want to hug everyone at a gathering except one person, and that one person asks for a hug after I’ve hugged all the other people and deliberately not hugged them, that’s gonna be awkward no matter what norms we have unless I have a reason like “you have sprouted venomous spines”.
Out of curiosity, are there any particular behaviors you have encountered at a gathering (or worry you may encounter) that you find off-putting enough to make the hug an issue?
I prefer to hug only people I like, and I don’t like literally everyone. Hugging people I merely don’t like that much is not so much “an issue” as it is “a thing I do not think should be subject to social pressure”—who I’m going to touch and how should be solely about the intersection of my preferences and the other person’s. It’s not about a specific behavior (i.e. I’m not particularly afraid someone’s going to take a hug and turn it into unexpected rear-grabbing or anything like that).
Update: I am now a little afraid that people will take a hug and turn it into unexpected cheek-kissing. I now wish I hadn’t hugged that person. All, please be careful with this sort of pitfall.
Where was that person from? In certain places, cheek-kissing is the default way to greet a female with whom one is on a first name basis, so if they were from such a place, maybe they didn’t assign a higher prior to you being weirded out by a kiss on the cheek than to you being weirded out by a handshake.
I didn’t know his name, first of all. Second, as far as I know (based on lack of obvious accent and later learning his name) he’s from America or some comparable culture. Third, reasonably aware people in the United States interacting with Americans should figure out not to kiss near-strangers pretty quick.
(I was assuming that you had at least introduced to each other and interacted for a while first. Possibly because I myself don’t usually hug people whose name I don’t know (unless we’re dancing or it’s midnight on New Year’s Day or something). Damn typical mind fallacy!)
I approve of the general goals behind this post. Affection is great! That said, it sounds kind of like it was written on ecstasy. And I’m not sure the exact approach will work generally. #3 in particular is a little badly worded—how far over one’s limits is one expected to tolerate encroachment? How many times?
I think it makes sense to consider what we want to use from ask culture versus guess culture here. If I like and want to hug everyone at a gathering except one person, and that one person asks for a hug after I’ve hugged all the other people and deliberately not hugged them, that’s gonna be awkward no matter what norms we have unless I have a reason like “you have sprouted venomous spines”. But if someone I’m perfectly comfortable with longs longingly to pet my long hair, and doesn’t ask, this is indeed a sadly missed gain. Because my hair is awesome.
That’s an excellent summary.
For my part I’d never dream of saying or declaring implementation of anything remotely like such a protocol. Heck, I might consider saying something as gushy sounding as “#1” to a partner I had been dating for 6 months but even then I’d use phrasing that was a bit more mutual and engaging and sounded less like “I’m a Needy Carebear”.
But abhorrence to making any declaration myself aside I have no particular problem with interacting with others who were trying to implement such a protocol. If Nyan (or someone else who isn’t a jackass) really wants a hug then sure, I’ll give him a hug. To be honest I don’t know what else he has in mind with his whole “loving relationships” and “optimal affection” idea. I suppose he can hold my hand if he wants to. Whatever, I hear they do that sort of thing in other cultures.
I am also fortunate in as much as when I am the recipient of an excessive amount of not particularly welcome affection it feels weird and peculiar—similar to if someone started making faces and speaking nonsense—but not threateningly unpleasant and creepy. It no doubt helps a bit that my instincts aren’t warning me that I am at risk of being involuntarily impregnated by a low quality mate. Even with this being the case I wouldn’t be so cavalier in giving licence to encroach my limits so I can imagine that #3 would cause all sorts of problems for a lot of people.
hahaha.
More testing! I guess if I tell someone not to do something, and they do it again, that’s no good.
I’ll look into that.
ha
Out of curiosity, are there any particular behaviors you have encountered at a gathering (or worry you may encounter) that you find off-putting enough to make the hug an issue?
I prefer to hug only people I like, and I don’t like literally everyone. Hugging people I merely don’t like that much is not so much “an issue” as it is “a thing I do not think should be subject to social pressure”—who I’m going to touch and how should be solely about the intersection of my preferences and the other person’s. It’s not about a specific behavior (i.e. I’m not particularly afraid someone’s going to take a hug and turn it into unexpected rear-grabbing or anything like that).
Update: I am now a little afraid that people will take a hug and turn it into unexpected cheek-kissing. I now wish I hadn’t hugged that person. All, please be careful with this sort of pitfall.
Where was that person from? In certain places, cheek-kissing is the default way to greet a female with whom one is on a first name basis, so if they were from such a place, maybe they didn’t assign a higher prior to you being weirded out by a kiss on the cheek than to you being weirded out by a handshake.
I didn’t know his name, first of all. Second, as far as I know (based on lack of obvious accent and later learning his name) he’s from America or some comparable culture. Third, reasonably aware people in the United States interacting with Americans should figure out not to kiss near-strangers pretty quick.
(I was assuming that you had at least introduced to each other and interacted for a while first. Possibly because I myself don’t usually hug people whose name I don’t know (unless we’re dancing or it’s midnight on New Year’s Day or something). Damn typical mind fallacy!)