Wow! I appreciate the lengthy and detailed explanation (I’ve read it all). I think this could be its own top level post.
The system seems quite good. I wonder how would you include kids in it (as they would reasonably be expected to do less chores than their parents, when young.) Perhaps a bit like your bounties you could have things you want them to do (like practice) count as points. Or, now that I think of it, the way the system works the kids can just get more points for every task, and it would even make sense because they would probably “resent” the tasks more.
If you think this sort of thing could be its own top level post, I think I have been severely abusing the the idea behind the shortform function with what I have poured in there in the last two days. (Mostly because I could not find the button for actual posts, and liked the low pressure scenario of not needing to edit, because I loathe loathe loathe editing text, to the degree where telling myself I need to first often means I publish nothing at all.) I feel my thoughts there on civil disobedience for AI safety, an open letter on AI funding, thoughts on recurrent feedback and sentience in AI vs. biological systems, and tactical concerns on recruiting AI researchers were more important than how I ensure that my girlfriend and I do fair shares of housework. - Can one retrospectively upgrade shortforms into posts without having to edit them?
Haven’t read your other posts, but sure, if you think they’re in a fitting form for a top level post then just copy paste them and republish. I’d just add a note that it was previously published in shortform and link to that.
I think as you post you’ll intuitively get a feel for what fits where (and it would also depend on your own standards, not just the standards of LW readers).
But about the shortform—it was kinda meant to be a LW twitter. So small things, unfully formed thoughts, etc. If you have something substantial, especially something that people might look for, link too, or that you’d want them to find through the frontpage or through tags, then regular posts are the way.
There is unfortunately an inherent difficulty with the system as is in adding a third party. If I erase my girlfriend’s points because I did the same amount of stuff, the board is empty, because we are on equal terms; my labour counters hers. That is part of why I love this system—as you add points, you do minimal math on the fly in seconds (if the top column (1 point) reads KKKK, and the second (5 points) reads K, and you do four one point things, you erase on the top to KKK and add at the bottom to KK), but you always end up with a board which instantly establishes the status quo, there is no additional task where you need to sit down with a lengthy piece of paper with scribbles and interpret it too make sense of it.
But if you add a a third party—if she erases my point with hers, this looks equalised, but my girlfriend hasn’t contributed zilch.
If you find a hack that addresses that, I would be curious to hear it. We won’t be having kids, but we are poly, so we might end up having an application for it.
If you want to use this system as is with your significant other, you could still employ the essence of the point ideas for kids. E.g. say they have to contribute x household points per week (tracked separately on their own tracking system), but let them chose which tasks they take, and when they do them, respecting their own talents and time and trusting them to choose wisely and plan. If by the end of the week they have not done them, well, they did not choose wisely, and you get to pick the shitty tasks for them that everyone else carefully avoided, and your kids being lazy becomes the excellent scenario of them having to do the shit you don’t want to. (Within safe limits of course, but kids can take out the trash or clean the toilet.)
Another aspect I like about this system is that it encourages you to be proactive. Basically, if you slack, and end up with someone else needing to assess the todos and tell you what needs to be done, this is never in your interest. That is how end up having to pick up the packet from the crazy neighbour who wishes to tell you about our saviour Jesus Christ. Or to spend an hour listening to maximally infuriating jingles on the health insurance hotline while being routed in circles. Or to set up the solar panels on the roof. (Okay, I guess the kids will be spared that last two.) But this will inevitably happen if you are not proactive. If you play this right, it will have kids hopping into tasks they would like to do that would help you to avoid such a scenario later. My gf and I have literally had scenarios where we were trying to beat each other to the non-sucky chore.
There is an often untold but annoying amount of labour women in families often end up having to do, where they basically coordinate everything, tell people what needs to be done, keep in mind that the birthday presents for the kids party need to be bought and that the clean laundry is running out and that there is nearly no cat food and that someone needs to call the plumber, and where they want others to do tasks, having to remind them, nag them… constitutes mental load and is also just a shit job to have that everyone hates and which people loathe you for. This job effectively vanishes, or, in the rare scenarios where it is still needed, it becomes a rather gleeful activity because the person you are ordering around knows they have lost all right to complain or request delays, and you get to push a thing you really do not want to do onto them without any feeling bad on your end. Payback.
Wow! I appreciate the lengthy and detailed explanation (I’ve read it all). I think this could be its own top level post.
The system seems quite good. I wonder how would you include kids in it (as they would reasonably be expected to do less chores than their parents, when young.) Perhaps a bit like your bounties you could have things you want them to do (like practice) count as points. Or, now that I think of it, the way the system works the kids can just get more points for every task, and it would even make sense because they would probably “resent” the tasks more.
If you think this sort of thing could be its own top level post, I think I have been severely abusing the the idea behind the shortform function with what I have poured in there in the last two days. (Mostly because I could not find the button for actual posts, and liked the low pressure scenario of not needing to edit, because I loathe loathe loathe editing text, to the degree where telling myself I need to first often means I publish nothing at all.) I feel my thoughts there on civil disobedience for AI safety, an open letter on AI funding, thoughts on recurrent feedback and sentience in AI vs. biological systems, and tactical concerns on recruiting AI researchers were more important than how I ensure that my girlfriend and I do fair shares of housework. - Can one retrospectively upgrade shortforms into posts without having to edit them?
Haven’t read your other posts, but sure, if you think they’re in a fitting form for a top level post then just copy paste them and republish. I’d just add a note that it was previously published in shortform and link to that.
I think as you post you’ll intuitively get a feel for what fits where (and it would also depend on your own standards, not just the standards of LW readers).
But about the shortform—it was kinda meant to be a LW twitter. So small things, unfully formed thoughts, etc. If you have something substantial, especially something that people might look for, link too, or that you’d want them to find through the frontpage or through tags, then regular posts are the way.
There is unfortunately an inherent difficulty with the system as is in adding a third party. If I erase my girlfriend’s points because I did the same amount of stuff, the board is empty, because we are on equal terms; my labour counters hers. That is part of why I love this system—as you add points, you do minimal math on the fly in seconds (if the top column (1 point) reads KKKK, and the second (5 points) reads K, and you do four one point things, you erase on the top to KKK and add at the bottom to KK), but you always end up with a board which instantly establishes the status quo, there is no additional task where you need to sit down with a lengthy piece of paper with scribbles and interpret it too make sense of it.
But if you add a a third party—if she erases my point with hers, this looks equalised, but my girlfriend hasn’t contributed zilch.
If you find a hack that addresses that, I would be curious to hear it. We won’t be having kids, but we are poly, so we might end up having an application for it.
If you want to use this system as is with your significant other, you could still employ the essence of the point ideas for kids. E.g. say they have to contribute x household points per week (tracked separately on their own tracking system), but let them chose which tasks they take, and when they do them, respecting their own talents and time and trusting them to choose wisely and plan. If by the end of the week they have not done them, well, they did not choose wisely, and you get to pick the shitty tasks for them that everyone else carefully avoided, and your kids being lazy becomes the excellent scenario of them having to do the shit you don’t want to. (Within safe limits of course, but kids can take out the trash or clean the toilet.)
Another aspect I like about this system is that it encourages you to be proactive. Basically, if you slack, and end up with someone else needing to assess the todos and tell you what needs to be done, this is never in your interest. That is how end up having to pick up the packet from the crazy neighbour who wishes to tell you about our saviour Jesus Christ. Or to spend an hour listening to maximally infuriating jingles on the health insurance hotline while being routed in circles. Or to set up the solar panels on the roof. (Okay, I guess the kids will be spared that last two.) But this will inevitably happen if you are not proactive. If you play this right, it will have kids hopping into tasks they would like to do that would help you to avoid such a scenario later. My gf and I have literally had scenarios where we were trying to beat each other to the non-sucky chore.
There is an often untold but annoying amount of labour women in families often end up having to do, where they basically coordinate everything, tell people what needs to be done, keep in mind that the birthday presents for the kids party need to be bought and that the clean laundry is running out and that there is nearly no cat food and that someone needs to call the plumber, and where they want others to do tasks, having to remind them, nag them… constitutes mental load and is also just a shit job to have that everyone hates and which people loathe you for. This job effectively vanishes, or, in the rare scenarios where it is still needed, it becomes a rather gleeful activity because the person you are ordering around knows they have lost all right to complain or request delays, and you get to push a thing you really do not want to do onto them without any feeling bad on your end. Payback.