Consistency is what we build into FAIs, not what we require of ourselves before changing what we would do. If animal suffering is bad enough that we should be an animal rights campaigner, but we nevertheless unethically choose to not become a campaigner, that does not make the decision to eat exactly as much meat as always suddenly an ethical decision.
Is it futile to eat a side of asparagus with your steak rather than a side of calamari? Not at all, we have still saved expected squid equivalent to one side of calamari. Would it be better to not have the steak? Sure, maybe, but the squid doesn’t actually care about our inconsistency.
I recently (gradually over the last half-year or so) became a fair-weather vegetarian. I ate pepperoni pizza today, and it would have been more than negligible cost to do otherwise. But the last time I bought groceries I did not purchase any meat. I find that I can forgo something like 90% of the meat I used to eat with positive marginal happiness, since most of the time it’s fairly trivial to switch to a non-meat idea instead and I still get more pleasure from the decision to switch than unpleasantness from the switching costs.
This is… an interesting approach. I wonder how many opportunities for marginal improvement we miss, because to admit there’s a problem at all would seem to demand complete action by the bright lines of morality and guilt.
There is definitely a cost in cycles which I glossed over. My guess is there are tons of missed opportunities for marginal improvement, but that there’s just no way we have enough brain time to focus on each of them and figure out they’re marginal improvements and figure out how to implement them without taking undue effort.
It’s difficult to do because in the absence of a bright clear line, we experience preference reversals when close up to the decision, which we rationalize.
Alicorn’s “not all therefore not some” is definitely along the right lines as a name for this failing.
Seems a bit more than False Dilemma, though. More like Can’t Admit Any Problem Exists Because The Minimum “Morally” Acceptable Response Would Be Too High.
That’s rather clunky; how about “blame denial” or whatever Latin is for “not all, therefore not some”? (“Non omnes, ergo non aliquot”? I have almost no Latin and filled in the gaps with an online dictionary; I probably needed to decline something.)
For anyone wondering how this turned out, I haven’t bought meat at the grocery store in the last two and a half months. I still order meat at restaurants.
My original analysis still holds. I just don’t care (in the aggregate) about the life of one or two or ten animals. I don’t think my marginal impact as a fair weather vegetarian is meaningful. Regardless, I have lost much of my taste for meat. I still have a lot of meat sitting in my freezer.
This is exactly where I’m at with regards to SIAI and singularity issues in general. I haven’t been able to convince myself to devote my life to the cause, despite thinking it unethical not to do so, nonetheless I’ve decided to at least start donating, even if it is inconsistent.
Your mental calculus on that issue is probably different from mine assuming you make more money than I do. I’m 23, just graduated from college, and make subsistence wages via a small business, but I’m somewhat confident that my income is going to rise rapidly—so this year I donated $10, but I hope to make enough money that it really will be like I have dedicated my life to the cause of existential risk. Or at least as much as Peter Thiel has done.
If you’re a programmer, your greatest expected value for earnings is biting the bullet and starting a startup...
I just turned 24. I’m a graduate student and make subsistence wages. I’m moonlighting as an indie game developer. If my studio takes off I’ll be able to donate much more to SIAI. But, even if I knew I’d be a millionaire next year, I’d still forgo some small luxuries (by subsistence standards) to make a donation this year.
We definitely need more programmers with enough chutzpah to found a startup, and who are willing to donate substantially if they make it big.
Both voted up for making small donations this year. I am much more optimistic about someone who says that they plan to do a startup and donate some of the money to SIAI if they have previously donated $10 rather than $0.
For what it’s worth, the best returns right now for game development are on Facebook. It’s something of a secret; developing games for the iPhone is almost a trap compared to developing games for Facebook. That’s what I’m working on right now. Happy to discuss this via PM/email...
I know it’s been pointed out elsewhere, but it’s also possible to make a commitment to only eat meat that has been raised humanely. This is what I do. I only buy grass-fed beef and cage-free chickens and eggs. “Organic” labels on meat include some animal welfare protections as well (for example, ruminants must be allowed access to pasture in order to be labeled organic) so this is a good thing to look for.
This kind of meat is more expensive, which means I eat less of it, but I can still have a hamburger if I really want it and enjoy it pretty much guilt-free. An animal has still died, but I’m okay with that.
Consistency is what we build into FAIs, not what we require of ourselves before changing what we would do. If animal suffering is bad enough that we should be an animal rights campaigner, but we nevertheless unethically choose to not become a campaigner, that does not make the decision to eat exactly as much meat as always suddenly an ethical decision.
Is it futile to eat a side of asparagus with your steak rather than a side of calamari? Not at all, we have still saved expected squid equivalent to one side of calamari. Would it be better to not have the steak? Sure, maybe, but the squid doesn’t actually care about our inconsistency.
I recently (gradually over the last half-year or so) became a fair-weather vegetarian. I ate pepperoni pizza today, and it would have been more than negligible cost to do otherwise. But the last time I bought groceries I did not purchase any meat. I find that I can forgo something like 90% of the meat I used to eat with positive marginal happiness, since most of the time it’s fairly trivial to switch to a non-meat idea instead and I still get more pleasure from the decision to switch than unpleasantness from the switching costs.
This is… an interesting approach. I wonder how many opportunities for marginal improvement we miss, because to admit there’s a problem at all would seem to demand complete action by the bright lines of morality and guilt.
There is definitely a cost in cycles which I glossed over. My guess is there are tons of missed opportunities for marginal improvement, but that there’s just no way we have enough brain time to focus on each of them and figure out they’re marginal improvements and figure out how to implement them without taking undue effort.
It’s difficult to do because in the absence of a bright clear line, we experience preference reversals when close up to the decision, which we rationalize.
Alicorn’s “not all therefore not some” is definitely along the right lines as a name for this failing.
Is that a named bias?
False dilemma, specifically black-and-white thinking.
Seems a bit more than False Dilemma, though. More like Can’t Admit Any Problem Exists Because The Minimum “Morally” Acceptable Response Would Be Too High.
That’s rather clunky; how about “blame denial” or whatever Latin is for “not all, therefore not some”? (“Non omnes, ergo non aliquot”? I have almost no Latin and filled in the gaps with an online dictionary; I probably needed to decline something.)
Found it! Perfect solution fallacy. And you’ll never guess what site linked me to it...
For anyone wondering how this turned out, I haven’t bought meat at the grocery store in the last two and a half months. I still order meat at restaurants.
My original analysis still holds. I just don’t care (in the aggregate) about the life of one or two or ten animals. I don’t think my marginal impact as a fair weather vegetarian is meaningful. Regardless, I have lost much of my taste for meat. I still have a lot of meat sitting in my freezer.
It might be easier to simply stop caring altogether than to take half-measures.
This is exactly where I’m at with regards to SIAI and singularity issues in general. I haven’t been able to convince myself to devote my life to the cause, despite thinking it unethical not to do so, nonetheless I’ve decided to at least start donating, even if it is inconsistent.
Your mental calculus on that issue is probably different from mine assuming you make more money than I do. I’m 23, just graduated from college, and make subsistence wages via a small business, but I’m somewhat confident that my income is going to rise rapidly—so this year I donated $10, but I hope to make enough money that it really will be like I have dedicated my life to the cause of existential risk. Or at least as much as Peter Thiel has done.
If you’re a programmer, your greatest expected value for earnings is biting the bullet and starting a startup...
Similar calculus.
I just turned 24. I’m a graduate student and make subsistence wages. I’m moonlighting as an indie game developer. If my studio takes off I’ll be able to donate much more to SIAI. But, even if I knew I’d be a millionaire next year, I’d still forgo some small luxuries (by subsistence standards) to make a donation this year.
We definitely need more programmers with enough chutzpah to found a startup, and who are willing to donate substantially if they make it big.
Both voted up for making small donations this year. I am much more optimistic about someone who says that they plan to do a startup and donate some of the money to SIAI if they have previously donated $10 rather than $0.
For what it’s worth, the best returns right now for game development are on Facebook. It’s something of a secret; developing games for the iPhone is almost a trap compared to developing games for Facebook. That’s what I’m working on right now. Happy to discuss this via PM/email...
Thank you, “eat less meat” was the obvious answer I was missing.
I know it’s been pointed out elsewhere, but it’s also possible to make a commitment to only eat meat that has been raised humanely. This is what I do. I only buy grass-fed beef and cage-free chickens and eggs. “Organic” labels on meat include some animal welfare protections as well (for example, ruminants must be allowed access to pasture in order to be labeled organic) so this is a good thing to look for.
This kind of meat is more expensive, which means I eat less of it, but I can still have a hamburger if I really want it and enjoy it pretty much guilt-free. An animal has still died, but I’m okay with that.
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