I wasn’t sure why this was on topic until I saw the part where you’re explaining about how people need to actually track their moods due to them frequently being incorrect about how unhappy they are. Then I had a hindsight bias experience and was like “Wait a minute. This seems so obvious. Why do I need to read a post about it?”
I did recognize this as hindsight bias, but your post might get better ratings from others if that area were written in a way that makes it more obvious that unhappy people are biased toward thinking that they are going to be unhappy. There’s probably a name for that. “Appeal to history” or something, or some psychology term.
Then I questioned whether depression was a relevant topic for LessWrong. I naturally have an interest in the topic since I’m a psychology enthusiast, and, knowing that you work with depressed people, I became curious about what you had to say. But I wasn’t sure that others here would be interested. Then I remembered that statistic I had heard, that 50% of the population experiences depression at some point. You may want to mention that so people know why this information may be relevant here.
Also, I haven’t seen you on for a while. How have you been?
I like your points. I did say at the top that I think this applies to everyone, but it sounds like that didn’t stand out to you, and like a lot of other people missed that as well. The suffering about suffering is something that I see pretty much everyone experience. For example, someone who is unhappy because they are tired, might think about how they are unhappy because they are tired, and worry that they are going to do things that make them tired like this a lot in the future, and see it as a persistent state. I’d say more often than not, people see their states as persistent, even when they logically can look at their lives over time and realize that the states are not persistent. So when someone is in an uncomfortable state, they often angst about it because of this bias. In Learned Optimism, Seligman talks about how the difference between optimistic and pessimistic people is which states they (biasedly) view as persistent—optimistic people identify more with their positive moods and see negative as passing, and vice-versa. When I used to be depressed, I identified with my depressed state as “real,” and all other states as passing and “not who I actually am.” (guess I should have cited this in the article!)
I’ve been good, super super busy. You? Feel free to drop me an email: shannon dot friedman at positivevector dot com.
The way I find myself most commonly experiencing meta-suffering is not when one big bad thing happens in my life, but when a lot of small frustrating things happen all within a few days. The stress becomes immense, and I think I must be anticipating more things going wrong and on some level it feels more like the universe is conspiring against me, for lack of a more scientific term.
I think this applies to everyone, but it sounds like that didn’t stand out to you
I think the problem is that I didn’t know what you meant by meta suffering at that time, so I was unable to evaluate the claim that the topic is valuable to most people. Therefore, I ignored everything up until the point where I understood what you meant by that.
Meta suffering is when you suffer because you are distressed that you are suffering. You are feeling depressed and hopeless, and there is a part of you that genuinely fears that it will never end.
^ This is the point at which I understood what you meant.
For example, someone who is unhappy because they are tired, might think about how they are unhappy because they are tired, and worry that they are going to do things that make them tired like this a lot in the future, and see it as a persistent state.
I don’t see this happening around me so I think it is not a good example of why the meta suffering concept is applicable to a broad audience.
I’d say more often than not, people see their states as persistent, even when they logically can look at their lives over time and realize that the states are not persistent. So when someone is in an uncomfortable state, they often angst about it because of this bias.
I believe it, but it’d be nice to have some kind of term for this (like whatever the academic or psychology term is for this bias) or a study as opposed to a reference to a person who seems to believe the same thing (Seligman).
When I used to be depressed, I identified with my depressed state as “real,” and all other states as passing and “not who I actually am.” (guess I should have cited this in the article!)
I don’t think it’ll help people see it as relevant to them if you write about how it was relevant to you. Though, it might help them feel related to.
I think the best bet for presenting this as relevant to this audience is to dig up the study that showed that 50% of people experience depression (assuming it was a good cite. I have no memory of where I got that from).
Writing for these guys is difficult. Would you like having someone to trade feedback with? Then we can both find out about presentation problems before anybody votes us down. :)
I’ve been good, super super busy. You?
Alienated but less so than I was last time we talked. Thanks for the email address. I saved it for if I need to email you.
I wasn’t sure why this was on topic until I saw the part where you’re explaining about how people need to actually track their moods due to them frequently being incorrect about how unhappy they are. Then I had a hindsight bias experience and was like “Wait a minute. This seems so obvious. Why do I need to read a post about it?”
I did recognize this as hindsight bias, but your post might get better ratings from others if that area were written in a way that makes it more obvious that unhappy people are biased toward thinking that they are going to be unhappy. There’s probably a name for that. “Appeal to history” or something, or some psychology term.
Then I questioned whether depression was a relevant topic for LessWrong. I naturally have an interest in the topic since I’m a psychology enthusiast, and, knowing that you work with depressed people, I became curious about what you had to say. But I wasn’t sure that others here would be interested. Then I remembered that statistic I had heard, that 50% of the population experiences depression at some point. You may want to mention that so people know why this information may be relevant here.
Also, I haven’t seen you on for a while. How have you been?
Hi Epiphany, yes good to hear from you as well!
I like your points. I did say at the top that I think this applies to everyone, but it sounds like that didn’t stand out to you, and like a lot of other people missed that as well. The suffering about suffering is something that I see pretty much everyone experience. For example, someone who is unhappy because they are tired, might think about how they are unhappy because they are tired, and worry that they are going to do things that make them tired like this a lot in the future, and see it as a persistent state. I’d say more often than not, people see their states as persistent, even when they logically can look at their lives over time and realize that the states are not persistent. So when someone is in an uncomfortable state, they often angst about it because of this bias. In Learned Optimism, Seligman talks about how the difference between optimistic and pessimistic people is which states they (biasedly) view as persistent—optimistic people identify more with their positive moods and see negative as passing, and vice-versa. When I used to be depressed, I identified with my depressed state as “real,” and all other states as passing and “not who I actually am.” (guess I should have cited this in the article!)
I’ve been good, super super busy. You? Feel free to drop me an email: shannon dot friedman at positivevector dot com.
The way I find myself most commonly experiencing meta-suffering is not when one big bad thing happens in my life, but when a lot of small frustrating things happen all within a few days. The stress becomes immense, and I think I must be anticipating more things going wrong and on some level it feels more like the universe is conspiring against me, for lack of a more scientific term.
I think the problem is that I didn’t know what you meant by meta suffering at that time, so I was unable to evaluate the claim that the topic is valuable to most people. Therefore, I ignored everything up until the point where I understood what you meant by that.
^ This is the point at which I understood what you meant.
I don’t see this happening around me so I think it is not a good example of why the meta suffering concept is applicable to a broad audience.
I believe it, but it’d be nice to have some kind of term for this (like whatever the academic or psychology term is for this bias) or a study as opposed to a reference to a person who seems to believe the same thing (Seligman).
I don’t think it’ll help people see it as relevant to them if you write about how it was relevant to you. Though, it might help them feel related to.
I think the best bet for presenting this as relevant to this audience is to dig up the study that showed that 50% of people experience depression (assuming it was a good cite. I have no memory of where I got that from).
Writing for these guys is difficult. Would you like having someone to trade feedback with? Then we can both find out about presentation problems before anybody votes us down. :)
Alienated but less so than I was last time we talked. Thanks for the email address. I saved it for if I need to email you.