I’m already a bit late to be commenting here, but I would suggest that people who are interested in further thought experiments along these lines read Egan’s /Permutation City/. I don’t totally agree with how the author answers his own thought experiments, but the experiments themselves are very closely related to the topic of the post.
While I agree this is an excellent and relevant book, I would like to warn that it’s a horror novel, and you may want to take that into consideration. As a horror novel it is outstanding, I couldn’t put it down. But don’t expect a pleasant reading experience.
Horror Novel? I thought it was a light-hearted piece of metaphysics. Surely it’s more ‘Star Trek’ than ‘Misery’.
I would have lent this to any child capable of understanding it without the slightest worry until I read this comment. Now I’d worry very slightly. Am I a bad person who shouldn’t lend books to children?
I dunno, I’m not good a modeling children who can read Egan. Peer’s storyline in particular was horrifying, especially his eternal suicide at the end of Part 1.
One of the major messages I got from it was thus: even if you never physically die, eventually over eternity one of these two things will happen -
1) your utility function will drift enough, and your memories fade and change enough, they you will be unrecognizable as the person you were. You as you are now will effectively be dead.
2) you will successfully resist change, and will be stuck thinking and doing the same things endlessly in a loop. You might as well be dead.
Even if we defeat death, living long enough is essential death anyway. You are doomed, there is no escape.
Isn’t that just due to the author’s inability to imagine/describe a mind capable of becoming increasingly and unboundedly complex without losing its identity? Why take it as an inevitable conclusion?
I’m already a bit late to be commenting here, but I would suggest that people who are interested in further thought experiments along these lines read Egan’s /Permutation City/. I don’t totally agree with how the author answers his own thought experiments, but the experiments themselves are very closely related to the topic of the post.
While I agree this is an excellent and relevant book, I would like to warn that it’s a horror novel, and you may want to take that into consideration. As a horror novel it is outstanding, I couldn’t put it down. But don’t expect a pleasant reading experience.
Horror Novel? I thought it was a light-hearted piece of metaphysics. Surely it’s more ‘Star Trek’ than ‘Misery’.
I would have lent this to any child capable of understanding it without the slightest worry until I read this comment. Now I’d worry very slightly. Am I a bad person who shouldn’t lend books to children?
Yeah it’s a horror novel.
Read Ultimate Meta Mega Crossover for a fix fic that tries to repair the damage.
I dunno, I’m not good a modeling children who can read Egan. Peer’s storyline in particular was horrifying, especially his eternal suicide at the end of Part 1.
As a teenager, I don’t see how it can be horror. I thought it was inspiring, honestly.
One of the major messages I got from it was thus: even if you never physically die, eventually over eternity one of these two things will happen - 1) your utility function will drift enough, and your memories fade and change enough, they you will be unrecognizable as the person you were. You as you are now will effectively be dead. 2) you will successfully resist change, and will be stuck thinking and doing the same things endlessly in a loop. You might as well be dead.
Even if we defeat death, living long enough is essential death anyway. You are doomed, there is no escape.
Isn’t that just due to the author’s inability to imagine/describe a mind capable of becoming increasingly and unboundedly complex without losing its identity? Why take it as an inevitable conclusion?
Well sure, but that wouldn’t make for a good horror novel. :)
Teenagers are immune to cosmic horror. Well-known fact.
Hmm the “map that is the territory”… The essence of ata’s post is a mirror of Daniel Dennett’s argument against p-zombies.