Not for “other crimes”, but specifically because of the original sin.
Some Christians would say that, some not. (Very very crudely, Catholics would somewhat agree, Protestants mostly wouldn’t. The Eastern Orthodox usually line up more with the Catholics than with the Protestants, but I forget where they stand on this one.)
Many would say, e.g., that “original sin” bequeaths us all a sinful “nature” but it’s the sinful thoughts and actions we perpetrate for which we are rightly and justly damned.
(But yes, most Christians would say that the default outcome for humans as we now are is damnation, whether or not they would cash that out in the traditional way as eternal torment.)
“original sin” bequeaths us all a sinful “nature” but it’s the sinful thoughts and actions we perpetrate for which we are rightly and justly damned.
Wouldn’t Protestants agree that without the help of Jesus (technically, grace) humans cannot help but yield to their sinful nature? The original sin is not something mere humans can overcome by themselves.
They probably would (the opposite position being Pelagianism, I suppose). But they’d still say our sins are our fault and we are fully responsible for them.
(Your way of phrasing the question suggests you might be looking for a pointless argument with me. If that’s the case, please stop.)
My remark was not about the “fully responsible” part, but about the “your fault” part.
Note that guilt has nothing to do with being responsible for your own choices. The feeling of guilt is counterproductive regardless of what you choose to do.
Telling people “this is your fault” is a pretty good way to ensure that they feel guilty.
(Your way of phrasing the question suggests you might be looking for a pointless argument with me. If that’s the case, please stop.)
No, that is not the case. It does appear that I had misunderstood what you said, though.
My remark was not about the “fully responsible” part, but about the “your fault” part.
This being the misunderstanding.
I think I now see more clearly what you were saying. You were saying that a statement along the lines of “Everything wrong in your life is YOUR FAULT!” would be making people feel guilty on purpose. This I agree with.
(What I thought you were saying—and what I did not agree with—is now unimportant.)
Sorry for that accusation, it was caused by your phrasing which (to me) sounded suggestive of indignation, and following the scheme often found in unpleasant arguments, i.e. repeating someone’s words (or misinterpreted words) in a loud-angry-questioning tone. As a suggestion, remember that this way of phrasing questions can be misunderstood?
I apologise for my error.
Nothing happened that requires apologies :) It’s cool :)
As a suggestion, remember that this way of phrasing questions can be misunderstood?
I shall try to bear that in mind in the future. Tonal information is stripped from plain-text communication, and will be guessed (possibly erroneously) by the reader.
(I knew that already, actually, but it’s not an easy lesson to always remember)
Some Christians would say that, some not. (Very very crudely, Catholics would somewhat agree, Protestants mostly wouldn’t. The Eastern Orthodox usually line up more with the Catholics than with the Protestants, but I forget where they stand on this one.)
Many would say, e.g., that “original sin” bequeaths us all a sinful “nature” but it’s the sinful thoughts and actions we perpetrate for which we are rightly and justly damned.
(But yes, most Christians would say that the default outcome for humans as we now are is damnation, whether or not they would cash that out in the traditional way as eternal torment.)
Wouldn’t Protestants agree that without the help of Jesus (technically, grace) humans cannot help but yield to their sinful nature? The original sin is not something mere humans can overcome by themselves.
They probably would (the opposite position being Pelagianism, I suppose). But they’d still say our sins are our fault and we are fully responsible for them.
This sounds like making people feel guilty on purpose.
Saying “you are responsible for your own choices” is making people feel guilty on purpose?
(Your way of phrasing the question suggests you might be looking for a pointless argument with me. If that’s the case, please stop.)
My remark was not about the “fully responsible” part, but about the “your fault” part.
Note that guilt has nothing to do with being responsible for your own choices. The feeling of guilt is counterproductive regardless of what you choose to do.
Telling people “this is your fault” is a pretty good way to ensure that they feel guilty.
No, that is not the case. It does appear that I had misunderstood what you said, though.
This being the misunderstanding.
I think I now see more clearly what you were saying. You were saying that a statement along the lines of “Everything wrong in your life is YOUR FAULT!” would be making people feel guilty on purpose. This I agree with.
(What I thought you were saying—and what I did not agree with—is now unimportant.)
I apologise for my error.
Sorry for that accusation, it was caused by your phrasing which (to me) sounded suggestive of indignation, and following the scheme often found in unpleasant arguments, i.e. repeating someone’s words (or misinterpreted words) in a loud-angry-questioning tone. As a suggestion, remember that this way of phrasing questions can be misunderstood?
Nothing happened that requires apologies :) It’s cool :)
I shall try to bear that in mind in the future. Tonal information is stripped from plain-text communication, and will be guessed (possibly erroneously) by the reader.
(I knew that already, actually, but it’s not an easy lesson to always remember)
Could be. (For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not endorsing any of this stuff: I think it’s logically dodgy and morally odious.)
[EDITED to fix an autocorrect error. If you saw “I’m not encoding any of this stuff”, that’s why.]
I liked the version with “encoding” :) It makes sense in its own way, if you have some programming background :)
Only an extremely limited kind of sense :-).