It’s not dependency in the same way that caffeine, alcohol, adderall, etc. cause dependency. Your baseline right now is “normal sleep” and when you take melatonin, you get “better sleep.” Eventually, melatonin becomes “normal sleep” as you get used to it, and when you stop, you experience “bad sleep.” However, you were having bad sleep beforehand, you just weren’t aware as you didn’t have anything to compare it to. Now that you’ve experienced better sleep, going back to bad sleep isn’t really an option.
It’s not that you become dependent. It’s that you are dependent and aren’t aware of it.
A clearer phrasing of the question: Melatonin is important in my existing sleep processes. Does taking exogenous melatonin reduce my body’s own production of the stuff to compensate, and if so how severe is this effect?
In regards to supplementation, oral melatonin supplements at 500mcg over a period of a week in shift workers did not influence basal secretion, as cessation for one day prior to measurements did not show differences when compared to secretion status prior to supplementation.[24] 24-hour melatonin levels in this study, when graphed, essentially overlapped suggesting next to no variance.[24] These results indicating a lack of negative feedback have been replicated with 2mg[25] and 5mg.[26]
Good question! This is definitely an important thing to consider.
300mcg initially. Currently at 200mcg to trigger sleep onset 6 hours before, 1.2mg timed-release, and a supplementary 300mcg timed-release or 200mcg if I wake up in the middle of the night.
Cocaine and melatonin aren’t really comparable. There are a lot of reasons why you wouldn’t want to take cocaine, including price, legality, negative side effects, undesirable neurological changes, etc. Cocaine use also develops a tolerance and has withdrawal symptoms. On the other hand, melatonin is very cheap, usually legal, rarely has side effects, doesn’t develop a tolerance, and doesn’t have any withdrawal symptoms.
Pretending you can assign easy numbers to “sleep quality” and “energy level,” my argument goes something like: Before melatonin, sleep quality was at 4. This is perceived as normal. After melatonin, sleep quality is perceived at 6. This is initially a +2 bonus, but eventually is perceived as normal. However, sleep quality doesn’t ever go back to 4 -- it stays at the new 6. When melatonin is discontinued, sleep quality goes back to 4. It doesn’t drop down to 2 for a while before returning to 4.
Cocaine doesn’t work like that. When you take cocaine, you get an initial boost of energy, and then a crash. If you sustain an energy level with cocaine, you’ll develop a tolerance, requiring more and more cocaine to achieve the same effects. This crashes your energy systems even harder and will present you with withdrawal symptoms if you try to stop. To put it to numbers, you’d have a 5 baseline. A dose of cocaine puts you at 10, and you crash at 2. If you use cocaine to get your energy level up from the crash, you’re now dependent and developing a tolerance. When you try to stop cocaine use entirely, withdrawal symptoms put you at a 1 for quite some time, and you might never return to your previous 5 baseline.
Gwern’s melatonin piece is probably your best first port of call on this (and many other) subjects. I’ve been taking it pretty regularly (most nights) for coming up to a year, and can still fall asleep without too much difficulty without it. “Without too much difficulty” is a bit of a relative term, though. I keep somewhat unusual hours and have had difficulty getting to sleep for as long as I can remember.
How can I mitigate dependence? I do it by using at most a week at a time.
It’s not dependency in the same way that caffeine, alcohol, adderall, etc. cause dependency. Your baseline right now is “normal sleep” and when you take melatonin, you get “better sleep.” Eventually, melatonin becomes “normal sleep” as you get used to it, and when you stop, you experience “bad sleep.” However, you were having bad sleep beforehand, you just weren’t aware as you didn’t have anything to compare it to. Now that you’ve experienced better sleep, going back to bad sleep isn’t really an option.
It’s not that you become dependent. It’s that you are dependent and aren’t aware of it.
A clearer phrasing of the question: Melatonin is important in my existing sleep processes. Does taking exogenous melatonin reduce my body’s own production of the stuff to compensate, and if so how severe is this effect?
It doesn’t appear to do that.:
Good question! This is definitely an important thing to consider.
One week is a trivial amount of time. I’ve been taking it for years and have had to slowly, steadily increase the dosage.
Do you have any evidence that the cause is not ordinary aging?
Interesting! If you don’t mind sharing, how much were you taking initially, and how much are you taking now?
300mcg initially. Currently at 200mcg to trigger sleep onset 6 hours before, 1.2mg timed-release, and a supplementary 300mcg timed-release or 200mcg if I wake up in the middle of the night.
Why not? Sure, we’re talking psychological dependency, not metabolical dependency, but still
s/melantonin/cocaine/
s/sleep/energy/
and your argument still works exactly the same way.
Cocaine and melatonin aren’t really comparable. There are a lot of reasons why you wouldn’t want to take cocaine, including price, legality, negative side effects, undesirable neurological changes, etc. Cocaine use also develops a tolerance and has withdrawal symptoms. On the other hand, melatonin is very cheap, usually legal, rarely has side effects, doesn’t develop a tolerance, and doesn’t have any withdrawal symptoms.
Pretending you can assign easy numbers to “sleep quality” and “energy level,” my argument goes something like: Before melatonin, sleep quality was at 4. This is perceived as normal. After melatonin, sleep quality is perceived at 6. This is initially a +2 bonus, but eventually is perceived as normal. However, sleep quality doesn’t ever go back to 4 -- it stays at the new 6. When melatonin is discontinued, sleep quality goes back to 4. It doesn’t drop down to 2 for a while before returning to 4.
Cocaine doesn’t work like that. When you take cocaine, you get an initial boost of energy, and then a crash. If you sustain an energy level with cocaine, you’ll develop a tolerance, requiring more and more cocaine to achieve the same effects. This crashes your energy systems even harder and will present you with withdrawal symptoms if you try to stop. To put it to numbers, you’d have a 5 baseline. A dose of cocaine puts you at 10, and you crash at 2. If you use cocaine to get your energy level up from the crash, you’re now dependent and developing a tolerance. When you try to stop cocaine use entirely, withdrawal symptoms put you at a 1 for quite some time, and you might never return to your previous 5 baseline.
Gwern’s melatonin piece is probably your best first port of call on this (and many other) subjects. I’ve been taking it pretty regularly (most nights) for coming up to a year, and can still fall asleep without too much difficulty without it. “Without too much difficulty” is a bit of a relative term, though. I keep somewhat unusual hours and have had difficulty getting to sleep for as long as I can remember.