the fleeting discomfort is lost in the noise of other minor nuisances and has no lasting effect.
One speck of sand will be lost in a beach, but adding a speck of sand will still make it a bigger beach, and adding 3^^^3 specks of sand will make it a black hole.
has no lasting effect.
You notice it while it’s happening. You forget about it eventually, but even if you were tortured for 3^^^3 years before finally dying, you’d forget it all the moment you die.
One speck of sand will be lost in a beach, but adding a speck of sand will still make it a bigger beach, and adding 3^^^3 specks of sand will make it a black hole.
I consider it a faulty analogy. Here is one I like better: if the said speck of dust disintegrates into nothing after an instant, there is no bigger beach and no black hole.
If you consider the disutility of the dust speck zero, because the brief annoyance will be forgotten, then can the disutility of the torture also be made into zero, if we merely add the stipulation that the tortured person will then have the memory of this torture completely erased and the state of their mind reverted to what it had been before the torture?
This is an interesting question, but it seems to be in a different realm. For example, it could be reformulated as follows: is this 50-year torture option that bad if it is parceled into 1 second chunks and any memory of each one is erased immediately, and it has no lasting side effects.
For the purpose of this discussion, I assume that it is 50 dismal years with all the memories associated and accumulated all the way through and thereafter. In that sense it is qualitatively in a different category than a dust speck. This might not be yours (or EY’s) interpretation.
One speck of sand will be lost in a beach, but adding a speck of sand will still make it a bigger beach, and adding 3^^^3 specks of sand will make it a black hole.
6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand on one beach on one inhabited planet will collapse it into a black hole, which is far, far smaller amount of mass than 3^^^3 molecules of silicon dioxide. But adding one molecule of silicon dioxide to each of 3^^^3 beaches on inhabited planets throughout as many universes as necessary seems to cause far less disutility than adding 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand to one beach on one inhabited planet.
Is the problem that we’re unable to do math? You can’t possibly say one molecule of silicon dioxide is incomparable to 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand, can you? They’re indisputably the same substance, after all; 6 × 10^55 molecules of SiO2 is 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand. Even if you make the disutility nonlinear, you have to do something really, really extreme to overcome 3^^^3 . . . and of you do that, why, let’s substitute in 3^^^^3 or 3^^^^^3 instead.
Is the problem that we are failing to evaluate what happens if everybody else makes the same decision? If 6 × 10^55 people were given the decision and they all chose the molecule, 3^^^3 inhabited planets are converted into black holes, while if they made the other only 6 × 10^55 planets would be. So when faced with an option that seems to cause no disutility, must we annihilate seven billion people because it would if enough other people made our decision it would be far worse than if we and all of them made the other?
My point wasn’t so much that it will cause a black hole, as that a tiny amount of disutility times 3^^^3 is going to be unimaginably horrible, regardless of how small 3^^^3.
Is the problem that we are failing to evaluate what happens if everybody else makes the same decision?
That’s not the problem at all. Thinking about that is a good sanity check.If it’s good to make that decision once it’s better to make it 10^30 times. However, it’s only a sanity check. Everybody isn’t going to make the same decision as you, so there’s no reason to assume they will.
6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand on one beach on one inhabited planet will collapse it into a black hole, which is far, far smaller amount of mass than 3^^^3 molecules of silicon dioxide. But adding one molecule of silicon dioxide to each of 3^^^3 beaches on inhabited planets throughout as many universes as necessary seems to cause far less disutility than adding 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand to one beach on one inhabited planet.
Analogy does not fit. Dust specks have an approximately known small negative utility. The benefit or detriment of adding sand to the beaches is not specified one way or the other. If it was specified then I’d be able to tell you whether it sounds better or worse than destroying a planet.
One speck of sand will be lost in a beach, but adding a speck of sand will still make it a bigger beach, and adding 3^^^3 specks of sand will make it a black hole.
You notice it while it’s happening. You forget about it eventually, but even if you were tortured for 3^^^3 years before finally dying, you’d forget it all the moment you die.
I consider it a faulty analogy. Here is one I like better: if the said speck of dust disintegrates into nothing after an instant, there is no bigger beach and no black hole.
If you consider the disutility of the dust speck zero, because the brief annoyance will be forgotten, then can the disutility of the torture also be made into zero, if we merely add the stipulation that the tortured person will then have the memory of this torture completely erased and the state of their mind reverted to what it had been before the torture?
This is an interesting question, but it seems to be in a different realm. For example, it could be reformulated as follows: is this 50-year torture option that bad if it is parceled into 1 second chunks and any memory of each one is erased immediately, and it has no lasting side effects.
For the purpose of this discussion, I assume that it is 50 dismal years with all the memories associated and accumulated all the way through and thereafter. In that sense it is qualitatively in a different category than a dust speck. This might not be yours (or EY’s) interpretation.
6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand on one beach on one inhabited planet will collapse it into a black hole, which is far, far smaller amount of mass than 3^^^3 molecules of silicon dioxide. But adding one molecule of silicon dioxide to each of 3^^^3 beaches on inhabited planets throughout as many universes as necessary seems to cause far less disutility than adding 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand to one beach on one inhabited planet.
Is the problem that we’re unable to do math? You can’t possibly say one molecule of silicon dioxide is incomparable to 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand, can you? They’re indisputably the same substance, after all; 6 × 10^55 molecules of SiO2 is 6 × 10^30 kilograms of sand. Even if you make the disutility nonlinear, you have to do something really, really extreme to overcome 3^^^3 . . . and of you do that, why, let’s substitute in 3^^^^3 or 3^^^^^3 instead.
Is the problem that we are failing to evaluate what happens if everybody else makes the same decision? If 6 × 10^55 people were given the decision and they all chose the molecule, 3^^^3 inhabited planets are converted into black holes, while if they made the other only 6 × 10^55 planets would be. So when faced with an option that seems to cause no disutility, must we annihilate seven billion people because it would if enough other people made our decision it would be far worse than if we and all of them made the other?
My point wasn’t so much that it will cause a black hole, as that a tiny amount of disutility times 3^^^3 is going to be unimaginably horrible, regardless of how small 3^^^3.
That’s not the problem at all. Thinking about that is a good sanity check.If it’s good to make that decision once it’s better to make it 10^30 times. However, it’s only a sanity check. Everybody isn’t going to make the same decision as you, so there’s no reason to assume they will.
Analogy does not fit. Dust specks have an approximately known small negative utility. The benefit or detriment of adding sand to the beaches is not specified one way or the other. If it was specified then I’d be able to tell you whether it sounds better or worse than destroying a planet.