I have made your point about econ growth not being so low under Soviet system, if one even believes in economic growth as it’s usually reported. I’m fantastically skeptical of Soviet life expectancy data from Stalin’s life, especially when they are one year short of current (57 Year later!!!) figures. What was the population of the USSR in 1953 and in 1917? What birth rates were reported? Are the data even consistent?
What I have seen in this thread is an amazing collective display of this.
Every single claim like that (“but Soviet gdp is not real”, “what about East vs West Germany”, “what about Stalin killing millions of people” etc. etc.) is refutable with modest effort. What will have no effect on anyone, as in any context only one of the claims is refuted, so people look at their lists of arguments—most still unrefuted—decide by proportion that Communism must have been an economic disaster, and forget about that particular problem and their original extremely low prior probability they attached to it.
As for life expectancy, I’d bet you on intrade the data is self-consistent.
Given the fact that Czarist Russia had poor organization, wars and revolutions create chaos and destroy information, contemporary people have difficulty agreeing to within a factor of two as to how many people the Gulags or Chinese Cultural Revolution killed, and Russian population numbers in 1960 may have been lies (see http://www.heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/AIM_06-20-2002.html ) I am very skeptical of the claim but much less skeptical of its logical consistency.
I’m seriously curious about the life expectancy consistency (and even more about Cuba’s life expectancy legitimacy, but that’s less easily checked) but not willing to do a serious analysis myself, as it sounds time-consuming. Don’t want to set up an account on in-trade, but it you will do the analysis with even odds for $10 and propose a third party judge who I find credible to look over my counter-arguments and make a decision it would be worth my time to look over your data analysis and look for counter-arguments. My experience on Long Bets though makes me doubt that the third party judging etc can be done all that easily and in that satisfactory a manner, but it’s worth a try.
i definitely don’t accept your claim that the other claims are refutable, but that doesn’t deny me the opportunity to gain a some new factual knowledge cheaply or profitably.
I have made your point about econ growth not being so low under Soviet system, if one even believes in economic growth as it’s usually reported. I’m fantastically skeptical of Soviet life expectancy data from Stalin’s life, especially when they are one year short of current (57 Year later!!!) figures. What was the population of the USSR in 1953 and in 1917? What birth rates were reported? Are the data even consistent?
What I have seen in this thread is an amazing collective display of this.
Every single claim like that (“but Soviet gdp is not real”, “what about East vs West Germany”, “what about Stalin killing millions of people” etc. etc.) is refutable with modest effort. What will have no effect on anyone, as in any context only one of the claims is refuted, so people look at their lists of arguments—most still unrefuted—decide by proportion that Communism must have been an economic disaster, and forget about that particular problem and their original extremely low prior probability they attached to it.
As for life expectancy, I’d bet you on intrade the data is self-consistent.
Given the fact that Czarist Russia had poor organization, wars and revolutions create chaos and destroy information, contemporary people have difficulty agreeing to within a factor of two as to how many people the Gulags or Chinese Cultural Revolution killed, and Russian population numbers in 1960 may have been lies (see http://www.heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/AIM_06-20-2002.html ) I am very skeptical of the claim but much less skeptical of its logical consistency.
I’m seriously curious about the life expectancy consistency (and even more about Cuba’s life expectancy legitimacy, but that’s less easily checked) but not willing to do a serious analysis myself, as it sounds time-consuming. Don’t want to set up an account on in-trade, but it you will do the analysis with even odds for $10 and propose a third party judge who I find credible to look over my counter-arguments and make a decision it would be worth my time to look over your data analysis and look for counter-arguments. My experience on Long Bets though makes me doubt that the third party judging etc can be done all that easily and in that satisfactory a manner, but it’s worth a try.
i definitely don’t accept your claim that the other claims are refutable, but that doesn’t deny me the opportunity to gain a some new factual knowledge cheaply or profitably.
I’m confused—your link suggests one thing, but your comment text could mean the exact opposite. What are you arguing?