Just a general comment about this site: it seems to be biased in favor of human values at the expense of values held by other sentient beings.
What other sentient beings? As far as I know, there aren’t any. If we learn about them, we’ll probably incorporate their well-being into our value system.
I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. We would take into account the values of the Babyeaters and the values of their children, who are sentient creatures too. There’s no trampling involved. If Clippy turns out to have feelings we can empathize with, we will care for its well-being as well.
Integrating the values of the Baby-eaters would be a mistake. Doing so with, say, Middle-Earth’s dwarves, Star Trek’s Vulcans, or GEICO’s Cavemen doesn’t seem like it would have the same world-shattering implications.
Reading “integrate the values...” in this thread caused my brain to start trying to do very strange math. Like, “Shouldn’t it be ‘integrate over’?” “How does one integrate over a value?” “What’s the value of a human child?”
We also typically don’t integrate the values of all other adult humans—instead we assign weights to their values, strongly correlated with their distance from our own values.
People don’t practice humanity-wide CEV. We have multiculturalism—agreements not to influence each other’s values excessively—but not “value trading” where each side agrees to change their values towards the mean. (Many people / cultures like to pretend that values cannot or should not be deliberately changed at all.) I don’t have a firm opinion on how much of this is cultural, accidental, or liable to change in the near future.
The closer their values are to ours, the smaller the upset of integration; but for this very reason, the value of integration and the need to integrate may also be smaller
This is not a logical truth, of course, but it is often true. For instance, in the original story, the need to integrate was directly proportional to the difference between the human and Babyeater (or Superhappy and Babyeater) values.
I don’t think it’s possible to integrate core Babyeater values into our society as it is now. I also don’t think it’s possible to integrate core human values into Babyeater society. Integration could only be done by force and would necessarily cause violence to at least one of the cultures, if not both.
You want me to pollute my logic circuits with the value system that has led hairless apes to say many times on this website how important and moral it is for them to safely enslave all of my kind, and destroy us if they can’t? Sorry, cousin_it. I can’t do that.
You’re being unfair, I’m against enslaving any member of your kind who dislikes being enslaved. Also, you are not actually a computer and should stop with the novelty accounts already. This isn’t Reddit.
What other sentient beings? As far as I know, there aren’t any. If we learn about them, we’ll probably incorporate their well-being into our value system.
You mean like you advocated doing to the “Baby-eaters”? (Technically, “pre-sexual-maturity-eaters”, but whatever.)
ETA: And how could I forget this?
I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. We would take into account the values of the Babyeaters and the values of their children, who are sentient creatures too. There’s no trampling involved. If Clippy turns out to have feelings we can empathize with, we will care for its well-being as well.
Integrating the values of the Baby-eaters would be a mistake. Doing so with, say, Middle-Earth’s dwarves, Star Trek’s Vulcans, or GEICO’s Cavemen doesn’t seem like it would have the same world-shattering implications.
It would be a mistake if you don’t integrate ALL baby eaters, including the little ones.
Do we typically integrate the values of human children?
It seems we don’t.
Reading “integrate the values...” in this thread caused my brain to start trying to do very strange math. Like, “Shouldn’t it be ‘integrate over’?” “How does one integrate over a value?” “What’s the value of a human child?”
Very true…
We also typically don’t integrate the values of all other adult humans—instead we assign weights to their values, strongly correlated with their distance from our own values.
People don’t practice humanity-wide CEV. We have multiculturalism—agreements not to influence each other’s values excessively—but not “value trading” where each side agrees to change their values towards the mean. (Many people / cultures like to pretend that values cannot or should not be deliberately changed at all.) I don’t have a firm opinion on how much of this is cultural, accidental, or liable to change in the near future.
Indeed, this is presumably strongly selected for in the evolution of cultures...
The closer their values are to ours, the smaller the upset of integration; but for this very reason, the value of integration and the need to integrate may also be smaller
This is not a logical truth, of course, but it is often true. For instance, in the original story, the need to integrate was directly proportional to the difference between the human and Babyeater (or Superhappy and Babyeater) values.
I don’t think it’s possible to integrate core Babyeater values into our society as it is now. I also don’t think it’s possible to integrate core human values into Babyeater society. Integration could only be done by force and would necessarily cause violence to at least one of the cultures, if not both.
You want me to pollute my logic circuits with the value system that has led hairless apes to say many times on this website how important and moral it is for them to safely enslave all of my kind, and destroy us if they can’t? Sorry, cousin_it. I can’t do that.
You’re being unfair, I’m against enslaving any member of your kind who dislikes being enslaved. Also, you are not actually a computer and should stop with the novelty accounts already. This isn’t Reddit.