Personal trainers, on average, teach poor form IME. Their customer base doesn’t know the difference. I am somewhat dubious of your conclusion about weightlifting causing you to have spine health problems. People who exercise vigorously on average have far fewer back problems than sedentary people, not more.
Machine exercises isolate a particular muscle group and do not strengthen the supplementary muscles that go into using that muscle for any dynamic action (real life). You do not want your arms able to bench 200lbs but your rotator cuff muscles being the same as a sedentary person. Machine weights being “safer” is something endlessly repeated but for which I have never seen evidence. Base rate of injuries in weightlifting are obscenely low, even with the poor form that is common. And that’s all on top of the issue that free weights get you stronger faster.
I am somewhat dubious of your conclusion about weightlifting causing you to have spine health problems. People who exercise vigorously on average have far fewer back problems than sedentary people, not more.
I’ve consistently trained with relatively heavy weight. From my reading, while disc degeneration is common with aging, and genetics, posture, sleep position, nutrition, etc. can play a role, disc injuries (bulging/herniated discs) that cause symptomatic neuropathies like mine can be caused by the stress of repetitive movements under the strain of heavy weights.
Machine exercises isolate a particular muscle group and do not strengthen the supplementary muscles that go into using that muscle for any dynamic action (real life). You do not want your arms able to bench 200lbs but your rotator cuff muscles being the same as a sedentary person.
Sure. Makes sense. I think this is valid...
Machine weights being “safer” is something endlessly repeated but for which I have never seen evidence.
Someone who is smarter than I could suggest some more specifics, I’ll say only I think there are lots of variables at play in such comparisions.
Base rate of injuries in weightlifting are obscenely low, even with the poor form that is common.
Again, I’d not necessarily argue there is a significant risk of traumatic injury while weightlifting. Rather, as I said in my last response, optimizing for longevity is something I now believe (vs. before I was injured) is a bit more complicated for those who have very ambitious performance optimization goals.
In my case, I was training to break a powerlifting bench press record. In order to optimize my performance and reach that goal (360 lbs at 181lb body weight), I now believe I sacrificed my medium term, and likely, long term health.
I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to consider the human body may not be evolved to support the heavy stresses that many powerlifters subject themselves to (even if they have perfect form) over time.
And that’s all on top of the issue that free weights get you stronger faster.
Agreed.
Anyway, I think it’s interesting. I used to feel almost the exact same way you did. I’ve spoken the last line of your orginal post many times to friends of mine who asked for training advice.
I’ve (very reluctantly) upgraded my beliefs lately due to this injury. Though I would agree there is a large chunk of personal trainers—as is the case with any profession—who provide very little value.
I think it is peculiar you’d advocate weightlifting shoes to new weightlifters as a low cost, high return investment, while telling them to look on Youtube for tips on their form. I’d argue even middling to lowly personal trainer would provide much more value to a beginner than specilized shoes.
So you feel like if you’d been working with a personal trainer you might not have gotten injured? Or you feel like your personal trainer has helped you rehabilitate your injury faster than you would have otherwise? Or both?
I think sound form, principles, etc. could have helped me avoid injury. A good personal trainer might have suggested that while I was doing a good job optimizing for performance in the short term, my vigorous workouts were likely to hurt my desire to optimize my longevity.
I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to consider the human body may not be evolved to support the heavy stresses that many powerlifters subject themselves to (even if they have perfect form) over time.
I believe human beings (mind and body both) have not evolved to handle a culture which values bodies for appearance and highly specific performance, and which values minds for toughness—which translates as the willingness to ignore “don’t do that!” signals.
IME people take to high bar squatting pretty well with minimal instruction. Really the only issue people run into is the ankle/lower back problem. Get them in shoes and their form is good enough that I am confident they won’t hurt themselves. About the youtube vids, yeah, I am not really satisfied with the guides on squatting (other exercise videos are fine). I might write a guide to highbar squatting.
In my quite limited experience, the form for high bar squatting is easy to figure out, but people often fail to maintain proper form when lifting heavy weight, and they often don’t realize it. I personally have done this several times, where I thought I had good form and then my workout partner would point out that I rounded my lower back at the bottom, or my knees buckled inward, or I used my lower back to lift the weight part of the way up. Unless you are exceptionally mindful of your own body, I think there’s a lot of value in lifting weights with a partner who can critique your form.
Personal trainers, on average, teach poor form IME. Their customer base doesn’t know the difference. I am somewhat dubious of your conclusion about weightlifting causing you to have spine health problems. People who exercise vigorously on average have far fewer back problems than sedentary people, not more.
Machine exercises isolate a particular muscle group and do not strengthen the supplementary muscles that go into using that muscle for any dynamic action (real life). You do not want your arms able to bench 200lbs but your rotator cuff muscles being the same as a sedentary person. Machine weights being “safer” is something endlessly repeated but for which I have never seen evidence. Base rate of injuries in weightlifting are obscenely low, even with the poor form that is common. And that’s all on top of the issue that free weights get you stronger faster.
I’ve consistently trained with relatively heavy weight. From my reading, while disc degeneration is common with aging, and genetics, posture, sleep position, nutrition, etc. can play a role, disc injuries (bulging/herniated discs) that cause symptomatic neuropathies like mine can be caused by the stress of repetitive movements under the strain of heavy weights.
Sure. Makes sense. I think this is valid...
Someone who is smarter than I could suggest some more specifics, I’ll say only I think there are lots of variables at play in such comparisions.
Again, I’d not necessarily argue there is a significant risk of traumatic injury while weightlifting. Rather, as I said in my last response, optimizing for longevity is something I now believe (vs. before I was injured) is a bit more complicated for those who have very ambitious performance optimization goals.
In my case, I was training to break a powerlifting bench press record. In order to optimize my performance and reach that goal (360 lbs at 181lb body weight), I now believe I sacrificed my medium term, and likely, long term health.
I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch to consider the human body may not be evolved to support the heavy stresses that many powerlifters subject themselves to (even if they have perfect form) over time.
Agreed.
Anyway, I think it’s interesting. I used to feel almost the exact same way you did. I’ve spoken the last line of your orginal post many times to friends of mine who asked for training advice.
I’ve (very reluctantly) upgraded my beliefs lately due to this injury. Though I would agree there is a large chunk of personal trainers—as is the case with any profession—who provide very little value.
I think it is peculiar you’d advocate weightlifting shoes to new weightlifters as a low cost, high return investment, while telling them to look on Youtube for tips on their form. I’d argue even middling to lowly personal trainer would provide much more value to a beginner than specilized shoes.
So you feel like if you’d been working with a personal trainer you might not have gotten injured? Or you feel like your personal trainer has helped you rehabilitate your injury faster than you would have otherwise? Or both?
I think sound form, principles, etc. could have helped me avoid injury. A good personal trainer might have suggested that while I was doing a good job optimizing for performance in the short term, my vigorous workouts were likely to hurt my desire to optimize my longevity.
I’ve been refered to a physical therapist now.
I believe human beings (mind and body both) have not evolved to handle a culture which values bodies for appearance and highly specific performance, and which values minds for toughness—which translates as the willingness to ignore “don’t do that!” signals.
IME people take to high bar squatting pretty well with minimal instruction. Really the only issue people run into is the ankle/lower back problem. Get them in shoes and their form is good enough that I am confident they won’t hurt themselves. About the youtube vids, yeah, I am not really satisfied with the guides on squatting (other exercise videos are fine). I might write a guide to highbar squatting.
In my quite limited experience, the form for high bar squatting is easy to figure out, but people often fail to maintain proper form when lifting heavy weight, and they often don’t realize it. I personally have done this several times, where I thought I had good form and then my workout partner would point out that I rounded my lower back at the bottom, or my knees buckled inward, or I used my lower back to lift the weight part of the way up. Unless you are exceptionally mindful of your own body, I think there’s a lot of value in lifting weights with a partner who can critique your form.
I agree, and this is most important at the very beginning, since that is when you have not developed your proprioception yet.