The CEV process might well be immoral for everyone concerned, since by definition it is compromising a person’s fundamental values.
If ithey find it immoral in the sense of crossing a line that should never be crossed, then they are not going to play.
I don’t think the morals=values theory can tell you where the bright lines are, and that is why I think rules and a few other things are involved in ethics.
There is some truth in it, however, insofar as in reality, for reasons I have been saying, beings that have fundamental desires for others to suffer and die are very unlikely indeed, and any such desires are likely to be radically qualified. To that degree you are somewhat right: desires like that are in fact evil. But because they are evil, they cannot exist
Consider a harder case....a society that is ruthless in crushing any society that offers any rivalry or opposition to them, but otherwise leaves people alone. Since that is a survival promoting strategy, you can’t argue that it would just be selected out. But it doesn’t seem as ethical as more conciliatory approaches.
“It doesn’t seem as ethical as more conciliatory approaches.” I agree. That is because it is not the best strategy. It may not be the worst possible strategy, but it is not the best. And since the people engaging in that strategy, their ability to think about it, over time, will lead them to adopt better strategies, namely more conciliatory approaches.
I don’t say that the good is achieved by selection alone. It is also achieved by the use of reason, by things that use reason.
Are you sure? Ont the face of it, doing things like attending peace negotiations exposes you to risks (they take the opportunity to assassinate you, they renege on the agreement, etc) that simply nuking them doesn’t.
It is also achieved by the use of reason, by things that use reason.
If people who reason well don’t get selected, where does the prevalence of good come from?
You can try to permanently exterminate them and fail. Additionally, even if you succeed in one case, you will ensure that no one else will be willing to negotiate with you even when it would be beneficial for you because they are stronger. So overall you will be decreasing your options, which makes your situation worse.
If ithey find it immoral in the sense of crossing a line that should never be crossed, then they are not going to play. I don’t think the morals=values theory can tell you where the bright lines are, and that is why I think rules and a few other things are involved in ethics.
Consider a harder case....a society that is ruthless in crushing any society that offers any rivalry or opposition to them, but otherwise leaves people alone. Since that is a survival promoting strategy, you can’t argue that it would just be selected out. But it doesn’t seem as ethical as more conciliatory approaches.
“It doesn’t seem as ethical as more conciliatory approaches.” I agree. That is because it is not the best strategy. It may not be the worst possible strategy, but it is not the best. And since the people engaging in that strategy, their ability to think about it, over time, will lead them to adopt better strategies, namely more conciliatory approaches.
I don’t say that the good is achieved by selection alone. It is also achieved by the use of reason, by things that use reason.
Are you sure? Ont the face of it, doing things like attending peace negotiations exposes you to risks (they take the opportunity to assassinate you, they renege on the agreement, etc) that simply nuking them doesn’t.
If people who reason well don’t get selected, where does the prevalence of good come from?
Yes I am sure. Of course negotiating has risks, but it doesn’t automatically make permanent enemies, and it is better not to have permanent enemies.
People who reason well do get selected. I am just saying once they are selected they can start thinking about what is good as well.
If the alternative to negotation is completely exterminating you enemies, you don’t have to worry about permanent enemies!
You can try to permanently exterminate them and fail. Additionally, even if you succeed in one case, you will ensure that no one else will be willing to negotiate with you even when it would be beneficial for you because they are stronger. So overall you will be decreasing your options, which makes your situation worse.