The thing that I have been most surprised by is how much NTs like symbols and gestures.
Here are some examples:
Suppose you think your significant other should have a cake on his/her birthday. You are not good at baking. Aspie logic: “It’s better to buy a cake from a bakery than to make it myself, since the better the cake tastes the happier they’ll be.” Of course, the correct answer is that the effort you put into it is what matters (to an NT).
Suppose you are walking through a doorway and you are aware that there is someone about 20 feet behind you. Aspie logic: “If I hold the door for them they will feel obligated to speed up a little, so that I’m not waiting too long. That will just inconvenience them. Plus, it’s not hard to open a door. Thus, it’s better for them if I let the door close.” To the NT, you are just inconsiderate.
Suppose you are sending out invitations to a graduation party. You know that one of your close friends is going to be out of town that weekend. Aspie logic: “There is no reason to send them an invitation, since I already know they can’t go. In fact, sending them an invitation might make them feel bad.” If your friend is an NT, it’s the wrong answer. They want to know they are wanted. Plus, it’s always possible their travel plans will get canceled.
In each of these 3 examples the person with AS is actually being considerate, but would not appear that way to an NT.
In each of these 3 examples the person with AS is actually being considerate
I agreed with all of your comment but this: the person with AS is not “being considerate”, when “being considerate” is defined to include modeling the likely preferences of the person you are supposedly “considering.”
In each case, the “consideration” is considering themselves, in the other person’s shoes, falling prey to availability bias.
Personally, I am very torn on the doorway example—I usually make an effort to hold the door, but am very uncomfortable. I think it will help to remember in future that the availability bias of my own preferences shouldn’t rule out being considerate of what the likely preference of the other person is… and to change my SASS rules so that I feel good about holding the door, so it’s self-reinforcing.
It’s worth pointing out that all three examples are highly culturally variable.
The “aspie logic” example behaviour is far more common where I live (urban Japan).
In the first, most people lack the facilities to bake, especially young adults in small apartments or dorms. Buying a cake is the obvious thing to do. That or taking the SO to a cake-serving cafe.
In the second, -no one- here holds doors for strangers. I had to train myself out of the habit because it was getting me very strange looks. Similarly, no one says “bless you” or equivalent when strangers sneeze. The rules of courtesy are different.
In the third, it’s normal here to expect repeated invitations for any occasion. One invitation will be for show, so you invite people you don’t expect to make it as well. The key is that people won’t actually make plans to attend until two or more invitations have been received. (This is locally variable; some regions and demographics expect three or four invites. Think of it as a pre-event version of the British quirk where one says “We must do this again sometime” while having no actual desire to repeat the encounter.)
The bottom line is that the other person’s expectations ought to be factored into the logic. Beware generalizing from a sample of one and all that.
Your time and effort can be used to give status. By sending a reliable signal you’ve wasted time and effort for a friend, you’re giving your friend good evidence they have some power over you—a feeling much sweeter than a store-bought cake.
Suppose you are sending out invitations to a graduation party. You know that one of your close friends is going to be out of town that weekend. Aspie logic: “There is no reason to send them an invitation, since I already know they can’t go. In fact, sending them an invitation might make them feel bad.” If your friend is an NT, it’s the wrong answer. They want to know they are wanted. Plus, it’s always possible their travel plans will get canceled.
There’s also a difference between Ask and Guess cultures in this kind of things.
I have the feeling you are talking about quite untypical NT people here (except maybe for example 3). Around me you would have defined “NT people” (even the term sounds strange to me) as being Aspies. That doesn’t add up.
My NT ‘data’ are from conversations I’ve had over the years with people who I have noticed are particularly good socially. But of course, there is plenty of between person variability even within NT and AS groups.
The thing that I have been most surprised by is how much NTs like symbols and gestures.
Here are some examples:
Suppose you think your significant other should have a cake on his/her birthday. You are not good at baking. Aspie logic: “It’s better to buy a cake from a bakery than to make it myself, since the better the cake tastes the happier they’ll be.” Of course, the correct answer is that the effort you put into it is what matters (to an NT).
Suppose you are walking through a doorway and you are aware that there is someone about 20 feet behind you. Aspie logic: “If I hold the door for them they will feel obligated to speed up a little, so that I’m not waiting too long. That will just inconvenience them. Plus, it’s not hard to open a door. Thus, it’s better for them if I let the door close.” To the NT, you are just inconsiderate.
Suppose you are sending out invitations to a graduation party. You know that one of your close friends is going to be out of town that weekend. Aspie logic: “There is no reason to send them an invitation, since I already know they can’t go. In fact, sending them an invitation might make them feel bad.” If your friend is an NT, it’s the wrong answer. They want to know they are wanted. Plus, it’s always possible their travel plans will get canceled.
In each of these 3 examples the person with AS is actually being considerate, but would not appear that way to an NT.
I agreed with all of your comment but this: the person with AS is not “being considerate”, when “being considerate” is defined to include modeling the likely preferences of the person you are supposedly “considering.”
In each case, the “consideration” is considering themselves, in the other person’s shoes, falling prey to availability bias.
Personally, I am very torn on the doorway example—I usually make an effort to hold the door, but am very uncomfortable. I think it will help to remember in future that the availability bias of my own preferences shouldn’t rule out being considerate of what the likely preference of the other person is… and to change my SASS rules so that I feel good about holding the door, so it’s self-reinforcing.
It’s worth pointing out that all three examples are highly culturally variable.
The “aspie logic” example behaviour is far more common where I live (urban Japan).
In the first, most people lack the facilities to bake, especially young adults in small apartments or dorms. Buying a cake is the obvious thing to do. That or taking the SO to a cake-serving cafe.
In the second, -no one- here holds doors for strangers. I had to train myself out of the habit because it was getting me very strange looks. Similarly, no one says “bless you” or equivalent when strangers sneeze. The rules of courtesy are different.
In the third, it’s normal here to expect repeated invitations for any occasion. One invitation will be for show, so you invite people you don’t expect to make it as well. The key is that people won’t actually make plans to attend until two or more invitations have been received. (This is locally variable; some regions and demographics expect three or four invites. Think of it as a pre-event version of the British quirk where one says “We must do this again sometime” while having no actual desire to repeat the encounter.)
The bottom line is that the other person’s expectations ought to be factored into the logic. Beware generalizing from a sample of one and all that.
Your time and effort can be used to give status. By sending a reliable signal you’ve wasted time and effort for a friend, you’re giving your friend good evidence they have some power over you—a feeling much sweeter than a store-bought cake.
There’s also a difference between Ask and Guess cultures in this kind of things.
I have the feeling you are talking about quite untypical NT people here (except maybe for example 3). Around me you would have defined “NT people” (even the term sounds strange to me) as being Aspies. That doesn’t add up.
My NT ‘data’ are from conversations I’ve had over the years with people who I have noticed are particularly good socially. But of course, there is plenty of between person variability even within NT and AS groups.