I absolutely get that incentives matter. I also think that responsibility and accountability are important, and my proposal of “hwa” is not intended to suggest otherwise.
I will point out, however, that guilt/shame/punishment etc have additional incentive costs that are often unrecognized: they incentivize people to deceive each other and themselves. If I am navigating by avoiding punishment or avoiding guilt (an internalized form of social punishment) then I’m incentivized to avoid taking responsibility so as to avoid that punishment: both recognizing what I’ve done socially, because if I did then others would punish me, and also recognizing what I’ve done internally, because if I did then I would feel bad.
As you say: you get what you incentivize. And I want to build my relationships and my sense of self in such ways that deception is not incentivized. Therefore, taking a post-blame approach to responsibility.
“Hwa” does not assume that people are saints. It does, however, assume that they care. This is a decent assumption for most relationships, and if it’s not true, I recommend getting out of that relationship, whether business, romantic, or otherwise.
(This comment thread isn’t a context where it’s making sense to me to attempt to bridge all of the inferential distance that we’re working with here, but this response was something I could manage. I am going to continue to write on this subject, and I value the articulations of the gaps between my explanations and what-I-am-trying-to-say, as provided by Said and others.)
If I am navigating by avoiding punishment or avoiding guilt (an internalized form of social punishment) then I’m incentivized to avoid taking responsibility so as to avoid that punishment: both recognizing what I’ve done socially, because if I did then others would punish me, and also recognizing what I’ve done internally, because if I did then I would feel bad.
Quite so, which is why we have very strong moral intuitions that such deception constitutes defection—even betrayal. It’s also the reason why ‘integrity’ is seen as a virtue (and one of the highest virtues, at that).
Under “HWA”, it seems to me, there is indeed no incentive for deception, but only because there is no incentive to take responsibility. That’s a textbook case of “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”.
“Hwa” does not assume that people are saints. It does, however, assume that they care. This is a decent assumption for most relationships, and if it’s not true, I recommend getting out of that relationship, whether business, romantic, or otherwise.
Again: quite so, and I second the recommendation. But just as we have laws to keep honest people honest, we have incentives to keep people caring who care to begin with—because most things that both matter and that we can affect happen on the margin, not at the tails. And more: show me a person for whom incentives make no difference, and I will show you a saint.
I refer again, as I did in my earlier comments, to your own examples. In what way is Alice taking responsibility for her actions? Does she make restitution, and does she even recognize that she ought to do so? Does she take credible, costly steps to ensure that the transgression will not re-occur? If she does neither of these things, then in what what sense can she be said to have taken responsibility?
I absolutely get that incentives matter. I also think that responsibility and accountability are important, and my proposal of “hwa” is not intended to suggest otherwise.
I will point out, however, that guilt/shame/punishment etc have additional incentive costs that are often unrecognized: they incentivize people to deceive each other and themselves. If I am navigating by avoiding punishment or avoiding guilt (an internalized form of social punishment) then I’m incentivized to avoid taking responsibility so as to avoid that punishment: both recognizing what I’ve done socially, because if I did then others would punish me, and also recognizing what I’ve done internally, because if I did then I would feel bad.
As you say: you get what you incentivize. And I want to build my relationships and my sense of self in such ways that deception is not incentivized. Therefore, taking a post-blame approach to responsibility.
“Hwa” does not assume that people are saints. It does, however, assume that they care. This is a decent assumption for most relationships, and if it’s not true, I recommend getting out of that relationship, whether business, romantic, or otherwise.
(This comment thread isn’t a context where it’s making sense to me to attempt to bridge all of the inferential distance that we’re working with here, but this response was something I could manage. I am going to continue to write on this subject, and I value the articulations of the gaps between my explanations and what-I-am-trying-to-say, as provided by Said and others.)
Quite so, which is why we have very strong moral intuitions that such deception constitutes defection—even betrayal. It’s also the reason why ‘integrity’ is seen as a virtue (and one of the highest virtues, at that).
Under “HWA”, it seems to me, there is indeed no incentive for deception, but only because there is no incentive to take responsibility. That’s a textbook case of “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”.
Again: quite so, and I second the recommendation. But just as we have laws to keep honest people honest, we have incentives to keep people caring who care to begin with—because most things that both matter and that we can affect happen on the margin, not at the tails. And more: show me a person for whom incentives make no difference, and I will show you a saint.
I refer again, as I did in my earlier comments, to your own examples. In what way is Alice taking responsibility for her actions? Does she make restitution, and does she even recognize that she ought to do so? Does she take credible, costly steps to ensure that the transgression will not re-occur? If she does neither of these things, then in what what sense can she be said to have taken responsibility?