Thank you for this, exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Believe it or not, I’ve had almost every one of these thoughts myself over the last year and a half.
Do you really believe, as a general rule, that the best way to cure abusive people is to give them a supply of victims
Nope. Don’t believe it at all.
Do you have any data to support the hypothesis that your “healing” actually works?
I have data to the contrary. I’ve spent a year and a half trying and the abuse has gotten progressively worse.
Does your girlfriend take a therapy?
No. She doesn’t acknowledge that she has a problem. When I try to talk to her about getting help she says that her problems are because of me and if I would just do what she says (a long an unreasonable and constantly shifting list) she would get better. She also believes I deserve what she does because I “push her over the edge.”
would you recommend your friend to stay in the relationship?
Absolutely not
Imagine a parallel reality where you live with a girlfriend who is not abusive...
I do this all the time. I of course would not leave her to sacrifice myself for an abusive stranger.
Ask your 50-years old future you, who is probably too emotionaly broken to rescue themselves, if they could use a time machine and send a message back to the past, to your current self, what would that message say?
It would tell me to leave ASAP and never look back. It would be sent as close to the beginning of the relationship as the time machine allowed.
Do you want to have children one day? If yes, do you want your children to have an abusive mother?
Yes and no.
Do you believe that decent human beings should help each other and support each other, as much as possible, especially when they are in a relationship? How does your girlfriend fulfill these criteria.
I believe moral duties apply to everyone and she has certainly failed at fulfilling hers. I don’t think it’s her fault, however you want to parse that sentence, but the consequences are real for me and should be for her too.
If helping other people is a high priority in your life, is staying with your current girlfriend really generating maximum good?
It wouldn’t at all. I do care about helping others and in my normal state I’m an extremely high functioning and successful person. I’ve basically become a drone that works and worries about her and that’s about it. I miss my former self and getting that back is one of the things that excites me most.
Thanks for the long response. The most difficult part of all this is feeling a bit insane myself. My rational mind can output the right answers, but I haven’t been following them. Introspection and internal consistency (and a willingness to update) has always been something I’m naturally good at and valued greatly. I’m not the same person I was before this started and that’s terrifying. I feel like I’m on the road to recovery though. Your comments are very helpful.
Heh. From a certain point of view, she really doesn’t. If she cuts you up, that would be your problem.
she says that her problems are because of me and if I would just do what she says (a long an unreasonable and constantly shifting list) she would get better. She also believes I deserve what she does because I “push her over the edge.”
I’ve basically become a drone that works and worries about her and that’s about it.
A friend of a friend was dating a person who would fit this description exactly, and… well, it would be a long story. Towards the end the person demanded that they spend the whole day together, every day, which made them both unable to keep a job, so they just kept borrowing as much money as was possible from anyone. The victim was completely brainwashed, and despite trying to do everything, was beaten regularly, more and more severely. At the end, the victim’s family kidnapped the victim and kept them in another country for a few months, not allowing them to use phone or internet. This finally allowed the victim to “awaken”.
Meanwhile the abuser was evicted from the appartment they haven’t paid rent for. Instead of finding a job, the abuser spent all their time trying to contact the victim, manipulating a wide social network quite successfully; but the family did a good job at hiding the victim until their “awakening”, at which point the victim didn’t want to see the abuser anymore. I don’t have detailed information about what happened afterwards; I believe the family didn’t call the police, but threatened to do so if the abuser tries to approach the victim anymore. (Institutions scare the abuser like shit.) The abuser is now homeless, works for food, and keeps a blog about how this all was a conspiracy of unfavorable parents against the True Love, with prayers to God to make the victim return to them. Note: the abuser is an atheist, but the victim is strongly religious; everything the abuser does is a calculated manipulation. Hopefully, as a homeless person, their ability to charm and seduce people will be diminished. The victim is back, living a normal life again, as far as I know. This happened about five years ago.
So, congratulations on quitting soon enough! You were not harmed; you didn’t lose your job and savings.
I miss my former self and getting that back is one of the things that excites me most.
For the victim in my story, it took less than one year. I mean, about a month to “awaken”, a few more months to regain emotional balance and feel the certainty that even if they would meet the abuser again they wouldn’t succumb to their manipulation, and the rest of the year to stop bitching about the abuser and focus on living their normal life again.
At this moment I would recommend trying to remember what you enjoyed doing before this all started, and perhaps contacting your old friends and doing it again.
Also, cut the contact. She will probably find many different reasons to talk to you; may blackmail you to talking. For example, if you forgot some of your property at her place, she may insist on meeting you one-on-one and having a conversation before she returns it to you. Do not, ever, meet her in an isolated place. She would probably try to brainwash you again, but if that fails, she might try some insane shit as a “punishment”—cut you with a knife, start screaming that you raped her, or whatever crazy idea may come to her mind.
Thank you for this, exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
Believe it or not, I’ve had almost every one of these thoughts myself over the last year and a half.
Nope. Don’t believe it at all.
I have data to the contrary. I’ve spent a year and a half trying and the abuse has gotten progressively worse.
No. She doesn’t acknowledge that she has a problem. When I try to talk to her about getting help she says that her problems are because of me and if I would just do what she says (a long an unreasonable and constantly shifting list) she would get better. She also believes I deserve what she does because I “push her over the edge.”
Absolutely not
I do this all the time. I of course would not leave her to sacrifice myself for an abusive stranger.
It would tell me to leave ASAP and never look back. It would be sent as close to the beginning of the relationship as the time machine allowed.
Yes and no.
I believe moral duties apply to everyone and she has certainly failed at fulfilling hers. I don’t think it’s her fault, however you want to parse that sentence, but the consequences are real for me and should be for her too.
It wouldn’t at all. I do care about helping others and in my normal state I’m an extremely high functioning and successful person. I’ve basically become a drone that works and worries about her and that’s about it. I miss my former self and getting that back is one of the things that excites me most.
Thanks for the long response. The most difficult part of all this is feeling a bit insane myself. My rational mind can output the right answers, but I haven’t been following them. Introspection and internal consistency (and a willingness to update) has always been something I’m naturally good at and valued greatly. I’m not the same person I was before this started and that’s terrifying. I feel like I’m on the road to recovery though. Your comments are very helpful.
Heh. From a certain point of view, she really doesn’t. If she cuts you up, that would be your problem.
A friend of a friend was dating a person who would fit this description exactly, and… well, it would be a long story. Towards the end the person demanded that they spend the whole day together, every day, which made them both unable to keep a job, so they just kept borrowing as much money as was possible from anyone. The victim was completely brainwashed, and despite trying to do everything, was beaten regularly, more and more severely. At the end, the victim’s family kidnapped the victim and kept them in another country for a few months, not allowing them to use phone or internet. This finally allowed the victim to “awaken”.
Meanwhile the abuser was evicted from the appartment they haven’t paid rent for. Instead of finding a job, the abuser spent all their time trying to contact the victim, manipulating a wide social network quite successfully; but the family did a good job at hiding the victim until their “awakening”, at which point the victim didn’t want to see the abuser anymore. I don’t have detailed information about what happened afterwards; I believe the family didn’t call the police, but threatened to do so if the abuser tries to approach the victim anymore. (Institutions scare the abuser like shit.) The abuser is now homeless, works for food, and keeps a blog about how this all was a conspiracy of unfavorable parents against the True Love, with prayers to God to make the victim return to them. Note: the abuser is an atheist, but the victim is strongly religious; everything the abuser does is a calculated manipulation. Hopefully, as a homeless person, their ability to charm and seduce people will be diminished. The victim is back, living a normal life again, as far as I know. This happened about five years ago.
So, congratulations on quitting soon enough! You were not harmed; you didn’t lose your job and savings.
For the victim in my story, it took less than one year. I mean, about a month to “awaken”, a few more months to regain emotional balance and feel the certainty that even if they would meet the abuser again they wouldn’t succumb to their manipulation, and the rest of the year to stop bitching about the abuser and focus on living their normal life again.
At this moment I would recommend trying to remember what you enjoyed doing before this all started, and perhaps contacting your old friends and doing it again.
Also, cut the contact. She will probably find many different reasons to talk to you; may blackmail you to talking. For example, if you forgot some of your property at her place, she may insist on meeting you one-on-one and having a conversation before she returns it to you. Do not, ever, meet her in an isolated place. She would probably try to brainwash you again, but if that fails, she might try some insane shit as a “punishment”—cut you with a knife, start screaming that you raped her, or whatever crazy idea may come to her mind.
Glad I could help.