True/fair, but I think this is something people are going to intuit wrong a lot in situations that vary on “who was actually doing the down voting”, so I wanted to make sure to note it here.
For what it’s worth, I was another (the other?) person who downvoted the comment in question early (having upvoted the post, mostly for explaining an unfamiliar interesting thing clearly).
Catching up on all this has been a little odd to me. I’m obviously not a culture lord, but also my vote wasn’t about this question of “the bar” except (not that I would naturally frame it this way) perhaps as far as I read CoolShirtMcPants as doing something similar to what you said you were doing—”here is my considered position on this, I encourage people to try it on and attend to specifically how it might come out as I imply”—and you as creating an impasse instead of recognizing that and trying to draw out more concrete arguments/scenarios/evidence. Or that even if CSMP wasn’t intentionally doing that, a “bar” should ask that you treat the comment that way.
On one hand, sure, the situation wasn’t quite symmetric. And it was an obvious, generic-seeming objection, surely already considered at least by the author and better-expressed in other comments. But on the other hand, it can still be worth saying for the sake of readers or for starting a more substantive conversation; CSMP at least tried to dig a little deeper. And in this kind of blogging I don’t usually see one person’s (pseudonymously or otherwise) staking out some position as stronger evidence than another’s doing so. Neither should really get you further than deciding it’s worth thinking about for yourself. This case wasn’t an exception.
(I waffled on saying anything at all here because your referendum, if there is one, appears to have grown beyond this, and all this stuff about status seems to me to be a poor framing. But reading votes is a tricky business, so I can at least provide more information.)
I understand that there may be costs to you for continued interaction with the site, and that your primary motivations may have shifted, but I will say that your continued presence may act as a buffer that slows down the formation of an orthodoxy, and therefore you may be providing value by remaining even if the short term costs remain negative for a while.
Hrm. I would like it if Conor stuck around, since I think the content produced in the last 30 days was enjoyable and helpful to me, but I also think paying costs to slow down the formation of an LW orthodoxy that doesn’t align with his goals would be a bad investment of energy. If it was costless or very low cost or if preventing the orthodoxy/causing it to form in a way that aligned with his goals was possible, then it would probably be worth it.
I am not in Conor’s head, but if I was in their place I wouldn’t be convinced to stick around as just a delaying tactic. A much more convincing reason might be to stick around, take notes of who does engage with me the way I wanted to engage with people, and then continue to post here while mostly just paying attention to those people.
Loren ipsum
True/fair, but I think this is something people are going to intuit wrong a lot in situations that vary on “who was actually doing the down voting”, so I wanted to make sure to note it here.
Loren ipsum
For what it’s worth, I was another (the other?) person who downvoted the comment in question early (having upvoted the post, mostly for explaining an unfamiliar interesting thing clearly).
Catching up on all this has been a little odd to me. I’m obviously not a culture lord, but also my vote wasn’t about this question of “the bar” except (not that I would naturally frame it this way) perhaps as far as I read CoolShirtMcPants as doing something similar to what you said you were doing—”here is my considered position on this, I encourage people to try it on and attend to specifically how it might come out as I imply”—and you as creating an impasse instead of recognizing that and trying to draw out more concrete arguments/scenarios/evidence. Or that even if CSMP wasn’t intentionally doing that, a “bar” should ask that you treat the comment that way.
On one hand, sure, the situation wasn’t quite symmetric. And it was an obvious, generic-seeming objection, surely already considered at least by the author and better-expressed in other comments. But on the other hand, it can still be worth saying for the sake of readers or for starting a more substantive conversation; CSMP at least tried to dig a little deeper. And in this kind of blogging I don’t usually see one person’s (pseudonymously or otherwise) staking out some position as stronger evidence than another’s doing so. Neither should really get you further than deciding it’s worth thinking about for yourself. This case wasn’t an exception.
(I waffled on saying anything at all here because your referendum, if there is one, appears to have grown beyond this, and all this stuff about status seems to me to be a poor framing. But reading votes is a tricky business, so I can at least provide more information.)
I understand that there may be costs to you for continued interaction with the site, and that your primary motivations may have shifted, but I will say that your continued presence may act as a buffer that slows down the formation of an orthodoxy, and therefore you may be providing value by remaining even if the short term costs remain negative for a while.
Hrm. I would like it if Conor stuck around, since I think the content produced in the last 30 days was enjoyable and helpful to me, but I also think paying costs to slow down the formation of an LW orthodoxy that doesn’t align with his goals would be a bad investment of energy. If it was costless or very low cost or if preventing the orthodoxy/causing it to form in a way that aligned with his goals was possible, then it would probably be worth it.
I am not in Conor’s head, but if I was in their place I wouldn’t be convinced to stick around as just a delaying tactic. A much more convincing reason might be to stick around, take notes of who does engage with me the way I wanted to engage with people, and then continue to post here while mostly just paying attention to those people.