One thing that disappointed, but didn’t really surprise me, was the lack of diversity in the community
“160 (96.4%) were male, 5 (3%) were female, and one chose not to reveal their gender.
The mean age was 27.16, the median was 25, and the SD was 7.68. The youngest person was 16, and the oldest was 60. Quartiles were 30.
Of the 158 of us who disclosed our race, 148 were white (93.6%), 6 were Asian, 1 was Black, 2 were Hispanic, and one cast a write-in vote for Middle Eastern. Judging by the number who put “Hinduism” as their family religion, most of those Asians seem to be Indians.”
The thing that particularly worries me is our low age. Now it’s to be expected as internet communities are a young person’s game but I’d be more comfortable with an average age closer to 30.
Combine that with the fact that most of us seem to be in Computers or Engineering (I’d really like to know what those “Other Hard Sciences” were) I do worry about our rationality as a group. One thing I’ve noticed with junk science is that Engineers and to a lesser extent Computer Scientists seem to be overrepresented. I’m not sure of all the reasons for this, I suspect that part of the problem is that we regularly work with designed systems that have a master plan that can be derived from a small amount of evidence. The problem being if you take that tendency to problem spaces that aren’t designed you have a tendency to go flying off in the wrong direction.
I’m worried that we could start turning into an echo-chamber where a localized consensus masks a growing dissonance with the outside world. The Shangri-la diet sounds interesting (I’m even giving it a try) but it also sounds a bit like pseudo-science. There could be a completely different mechanism at work, it could even be the good old fashioned placebo effect. I worry that we’ll develop a tendency to believe our rationality is strong enough to wade outside of our fields of expertise, the halls of kookdom are filled with brilliant scientists who wandered into a neighbouring discipline and I worry we could risk the same fate.
I’m not saying Less Wrong is a doomed cause or anything, the topics we explore (oh that crazy old Omega!) we seem to do fairly well on and I’ve picked up many useful lessons and insights. I just worry since we all want to apply our rationality and find answers, but regardless of how rational you are you can’t unravel the secrets of the universe just from analysing a piece of cake.
ps Oh yeah, how many of us 83.4% Libertarians/Liberals were very torn because while we really liked the free-market and social liberty ideals of libertarians there were just too many crackpots over there so we considered giving up some economic freedom for the mainstream democrats.
I suspect that part of the problem is that we regularly work with designed systems that have a master plan that can be derived from a small amount of evidence.
I’ve been playing alot of portal and half life 2 lately. (first person shooters with heavy puzzle elements) and I wonder about how the level design is affecting my thought process.
I’m often in a room with a prominent exit and it is clear that that is the exit I’m supposed to take. When the way I came in is blocked I know that there is some other way to get out. When my computer controlled squad mates parrot ‘which way do we go?’ I think to myself ’What do you mean? It’s obvious the level designer wants us to go this way.”
I wonder if this will affect how I deal with real world puzzles where there are many paths that don’t lead to defined goals, but also don’t lead to a clear dead end.
I’ve noticed the same thing with Valve games particularly (esp. after playing through with the developer commentary): they just seem so perfectly designed to guide the player that it becomes a bit boring. I want a few moments of running around in frustration before realizing “Aha! That’s what you want me to do! How non-obvious.” (A bit more like the old text-based adventures, King’s Quest series, etc., in other words.)
Yes! I start interpreting things I see in game as communication from the developers, rather than a universe to figure out. Which is fine in game, but I worry it’s training me for magical thinking.
King’s Quest style games solve some of this problem, probably because there’s more ‘noise’; Pointless things you can do, more places to wander.
Grand Theft Auto is even more open ended. Though I haven’t played the recent incarnations much.
For a while, whenever I heard any number of songs on the Dance Dance Revolution Supernova playlist I had an almost insuperable urge to jump around like a friggin’ idiot.
When I used to play a lot of Quake III, I had dreams where I’d have the sensation of moving around using jump-pads. I’ve also caught myself walking along the street and half-consciously scanning for potential cover and ambush points. My most disturbing video game carryover was a brief impulse after a long GTA session to gun my car at a pedestrian crossing a zebra crossing.
It’s a cliche that kookdom is filled with brilliant scientists outside of their expertise, but its definitely not what I observe when I look at scientific history.
Lots of kook inventors, Faraday, and lots of chemical and life and social scientists who start out correct but ignored or rejected and gradually embrace more extreme, attention-getting, but exaggerated and false versions of their initial thesis as a result of years avoiding their peers and interacting primarily with those members of the public who will act as an echo chamber.
Then there are the free energy and anti-gravity crowds. They seem to be born that way.
I’m specifically thinking of Linus Pauling with his theories about Vitamin C curing cancer and a former Nobel winning physicist (can’t remember who) doing a debunking of global warming based on some flaky arguments. Of course Wikipedia claims that Pauling may not have been completely out to lunch (though I don’t really trust Wikipedia when it comes to junk science). And I don’t really have any hard numbers, just knowledge of a couple cases and some anecdotes from scientists complaining about the tendency of Nobel winners to turn crackpot.
I suppose this could underline the danger I was mentioning about working with limited evidence as I fell victim in my very own example of it!
Awesome work.
One thing that disappointed, but didn’t really surprise me, was the lack of diversity in the community
“160 (96.4%) were male, 5 (3%) were female, and one chose not to reveal their gender.
The mean age was 27.16, the median was 25, and the SD was 7.68. The youngest person was 16, and the oldest was 60. Quartiles were 30.
Of the 158 of us who disclosed our race, 148 were white (93.6%), 6 were Asian, 1 was Black, 2 were Hispanic, and one cast a write-in vote for Middle Eastern. Judging by the number who put “Hinduism” as their family religion, most of those Asians seem to be Indians.”
The thing that particularly worries me is our low age. Now it’s to be expected as internet communities are a young person’s game but I’d be more comfortable with an average age closer to 30.
Combine that with the fact that most of us seem to be in Computers or Engineering (I’d really like to know what those “Other Hard Sciences” were) I do worry about our rationality as a group. One thing I’ve noticed with junk science is that Engineers and to a lesser extent Computer Scientists seem to be overrepresented. I’m not sure of all the reasons for this, I suspect that part of the problem is that we regularly work with designed systems that have a master plan that can be derived from a small amount of evidence. The problem being if you take that tendency to problem spaces that aren’t designed you have a tendency to go flying off in the wrong direction.
I’m worried that we could start turning into an echo-chamber where a localized consensus masks a growing dissonance with the outside world. The Shangri-la diet sounds interesting (I’m even giving it a try) but it also sounds a bit like pseudo-science. There could be a completely different mechanism at work, it could even be the good old fashioned placebo effect. I worry that we’ll develop a tendency to believe our rationality is strong enough to wade outside of our fields of expertise, the halls of kookdom are filled with brilliant scientists who wandered into a neighbouring discipline and I worry we could risk the same fate.
I’m not saying Less Wrong is a doomed cause or anything, the topics we explore (oh that crazy old Omega!) we seem to do fairly well on and I’ve picked up many useful lessons and insights. I just worry since we all want to apply our rationality and find answers, but regardless of how rational you are you can’t unravel the secrets of the universe just from analysing a piece of cake.
ps Oh yeah, how many of us 83.4% Libertarians/Liberals were very torn because while we really liked the free-market and social liberty ideals of libertarians there were just too many crackpots over there so we considered giving up some economic freedom for the mainstream democrats.
I suspect that part of the problem is that we regularly work with designed systems that have a master plan that can be derived from a small amount of evidence.
I’ve been playing alot of portal and half life 2 lately. (first person shooters with heavy puzzle elements) and I wonder about how the level design is affecting my thought process.
I’m often in a room with a prominent exit and it is clear that that is the exit I’m supposed to take. When the way I came in is blocked I know that there is some other way to get out. When my computer controlled squad mates parrot ‘which way do we go?’ I think to myself ’What do you mean? It’s obvious the level designer wants us to go this way.”
I wonder if this will affect how I deal with real world puzzles where there are many paths that don’t lead to defined goals, but also don’t lead to a clear dead end.
You could play procedural games like nethack or Dwarf Fortress, which have no railroading, and some things you encounter just can’t be solved.
Those kind of games aren’t as popular as “mainstream” ones like Portal, but they may better reflect the real world.
I’ve noticed the same thing with Valve games particularly (esp. after playing through with the developer commentary): they just seem so perfectly designed to guide the player that it becomes a bit boring. I want a few moments of running around in frustration before realizing “Aha! That’s what you want me to do! How non-obvious.” (A bit more like the old text-based adventures, King’s Quest series, etc., in other words.)
Yes! I start interpreting things I see in game as communication from the developers, rather than a universe to figure out. Which is fine in game, but I worry it’s training me for magical thinking.
King’s Quest style games solve some of this problem, probably because there’s more ‘noise’; Pointless things you can do, more places to wander.
Grand Theft Auto is even more open ended. Though I haven’t played the recent incarnations much.
This wired article may interest you.
Amusing article—I can’t quite get my mind around feeling that way abuoy quake, but I’ll cop to dreaming about Tetris when I was younger - .
Jonnane
For a while, whenever I heard any number of songs on the Dance Dance Revolution Supernova playlist I had an almost insuperable urge to jump around like a friggin’ idiot.
When I used to play a lot of Quake III, I had dreams where I’d have the sensation of moving around using jump-pads. I’ve also caught myself walking along the street and half-consciously scanning for potential cover and ambush points. My most disturbing video game carryover was a brief impulse after a long GTA session to gun my car at a pedestrian crossing a zebra crossing.
It’s a cliche that kookdom is filled with brilliant scientists outside of their expertise, but its definitely not what I observe when I look at scientific history.
Lots of kook inventors, Faraday, and lots of chemical and life and social scientists who start out correct but ignored or rejected and gradually embrace more extreme, attention-getting, but exaggerated and false versions of their initial thesis as a result of years avoiding their peers and interacting primarily with those members of the public who will act as an echo chamber.
Then there are the free energy and anti-gravity crowds. They seem to be born that way.
I should clarify.
I’m specifically thinking of Linus Pauling with his theories about Vitamin C curing cancer and a former Nobel winning physicist (can’t remember who) doing a debunking of global warming based on some flaky arguments. Of course Wikipedia claims that Pauling may not have been completely out to lunch (though I don’t really trust Wikipedia when it comes to junk science). And I don’t really have any hard numbers, just knowledge of a couple cases and some anecdotes from scientists complaining about the tendency of Nobel winners to turn crackpot.
I suppose this could underline the danger I was mentioning about working with limited evidence as I fell victim in my very own example of it!