I am concerned our disagreement here is primarily semantic or based on a simple misunderstanding of each others position. I hope to better understand your objection.
“The p-zombie doesn’t believe it’s conscious, , it only acts that way.”
One of us is mistaken and using a non-traditional definition of p-zombie or we have different definitions of “belief’.
My understanding is that P-zombies are physically identical to regular humans. Their brains contain the same physical patterns that encode their model of the world. That seems, to me, a sufficient physical condition for having identical beliefs.
If your p-zombies are only “acting” like they’re concious, but do not believe it, then they are not physically identical to humans. The existence of p-zombies, as you have described them, wouldn’t refute physicalism.
The main post that I responded to, specifically the section that I directly quoted, assumes it is possible for p-zombies to exist.
My comment begins “Assuming for the sake of argument that p-zombies could exist” but this is distinct from a claim that p-zombies actually exist.
“If they were possible, this wouldn’t be the case, and we would have special access to the truth that p-zombies lack.”
I do not feel this is convincing because this is an assertion my conclusion is incorrect, but without engaging with my arguments I made to reach that conclusion.
Either we define “belief” as a computational state encoding a model of the world containing some specific data, or we define “belief” as a first-person mental state.
For the first definition, both us and p-zombies believe we have consciousness. So we can’t use our belief we have consciousness to know we’re not p-zombies.
For the second definition, only we believe we have consciousness. P-zombies have no beliefs at all. So for the second definition, we can use our belief we have consciousness to know we’re not p-zombies.
Since we have a belief in the existence of our consciousness according to both definitions, but p-zombies only according to the first definition, we can know we’re not p-zombies.
I am concerned our disagreement here is primarily semantic or based on a simple misunderstanding of each others position. I hope to better understand your objection.
“The p-zombie doesn’t believe it’s conscious, , it only acts that way.”
One of us is mistaken and using a non-traditional definition of p-zombie or we have different definitions of “belief’.
My understanding is that P-zombies are physically identical to regular humans. Their brains contain the same physical patterns that encode their model of the world. That seems, to me, a sufficient physical condition for having identical beliefs.
If your p-zombies are only “acting” like they’re concious, but do not believe it, then they are not physically identical to humans. The existence of p-zombies, as you have described them, wouldn’t refute physicalism.
This resource indicates that the way you understand the term p-zombie may be mistaken: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/zombies/
“but that’s because p-zombies are impossible”
The main post that I responded to, specifically the section that I directly quoted, assumes it is possible for p-zombies to exist.
My comment begins “Assuming for the sake of argument that p-zombies could exist” but this is distinct from a claim that p-zombies actually exist.
“If they were possible, this wouldn’t be the case, and we would have special access to the truth that p-zombies lack.”
I do not feel this is convincing because this is an assertion my conclusion is incorrect, but without engaging with my arguments I made to reach that conclusion.
I look forward to continuing this discussion.
Either we define “belief” as a computational state encoding a model of the world containing some specific data, or we define “belief” as a first-person mental state.
For the first definition, both us and p-zombies believe we have consciousness. So we can’t use our belief we have consciousness to know we’re not p-zombies.
For the second definition, only we believe we have consciousness. P-zombies have no beliefs at all. So for the second definition, we can use our belief we have consciousness to know we’re not p-zombies.
Since we have a belief in the existence of our consciousness according to both definitions, but p-zombies only according to the first definition, we can know we’re not p-zombies.