“Everyone should occasionally sell some food for status” is not what’s being discussed. Your phrasing sounds as though Said said everyone was supposed to bring cookies or something, which is obviously not what he said.
What’s being discussed is more like “people should be rewarded for making small but costly contributions to the group”. Cookies in-and-of-themselves aren’t contributing directly to the group members becoming stronger rationalists, but (as well as just being a kind gift) it’s a signal that someone is saying “I like this group, and I’m willing to invest basic resources into improving it”.
If such small signals are ignored, it is reasonable to update that people aren’t tracking contributions very much, and decide that it’s not worth putting in more of your time and effort.
I agree with the more general point about importance of tracking and rewarding contributions, but in this subthread I was specifically discussing cookies and difficulties with graciously expressing my lack of appreciation for them.
rewarded for making small but costly contributions
There is nothing good about contributions being costly. With signaling, the cost should pay for communication of important things that can’t otherwise be communicated, because incentives don’t allow trust; here that piece of critical intelligence would be posession of cooking skill and caring about the group. The cost is probably less than the cost of time spent in the meeting, so the additional signal is weak. If you like cooking, the cost might actually be negative. If you are not poor, the signal from store-bought food is approximately zero. (As signaling is about a situation without trust, it’s not the thought that counts. I’m not saying that signaling is appropriate here, I’m considering the hypothetical where we are engaged in signaling for whatever reason.)
And it should actually matter whether the contributions are appreciated. So I guess it’s possible that there is a difference in how people respond to costly signals, compared to useful contributions of indeterminate cost.
The cost is probably less than the cost of time spent in the meeting, so the additional signal is weak. If you like cooking, the cost might actually be negative.
Once upon a time, I liked programming. Time spent not programming was uncomfortable, and any opportunity to involve programming with other activities was welcome. If I could program some cookies for a meetup, I would describe the cost of that as negative. Thus by analogy I’m guessing that a person who similarly likes cooking would perceive the cost of cooking (not counting the price of ingredients) as negative. Maybe I liked programming to a ridiculous degree?
(Not sure where this fits in the thread or if it does, so—sorry for offtop. At least one of ours has contracted the virus, AFAIK. He told me after we have talked for a bit about another business, I asked him to comment on something and he said sure, he’d have done it sooner but for covid… I have offered our local LW people to help pay for testing if anybody needs it, without any additional questions or conclusions. So far nobody has asked for it and I do hope this means something good, like “we’re mostly healthy and have money” and not something bad, like “we would have asked for help but it’s not done”. Even to be able to offer anything meaningfully, I need people “to bring cookies”.)
“Everyone should occasionally sell some food for status” is not what’s being discussed. Your phrasing sounds as though Said said everyone was supposed to bring cookies or something, which is obviously not what he said.
What’s being discussed is more like “people should be rewarded for making small but costly contributions to the group”. Cookies in-and-of-themselves aren’t contributing directly to the group members becoming stronger rationalists, but (as well as just being a kind gift) it’s a signal that someone is saying “I like this group, and I’m willing to invest basic resources into improving it”.
If such small signals are ignored, it is reasonable to update that people aren’t tracking contributions very much, and decide that it’s not worth putting in more of your time and effort.
I agree with the more general point about importance of tracking and rewarding contributions, but in this subthread I was specifically discussing cookies and difficulties with graciously expressing my lack of appreciation for them.
There is nothing good about contributions being costly. With signaling, the cost should pay for communication of important things that can’t otherwise be communicated, because incentives don’t allow trust; here that piece of critical intelligence would be posession of cooking skill and caring about the group. The cost is probably less than the cost of time spent in the meeting, so the additional signal is weak. If you like cooking, the cost might actually be negative. If you are not poor, the signal from store-bought food is approximately zero. (As signaling is about a situation without trust, it’s not the thought that counts. I’m not saying that signaling is appropriate here, I’m considering the hypothetical where we are engaged in signaling for whatever reason.)
And it should actually matter whether the contributions are appreciated. So I guess it’s possible that there is a difference in how people respond to costly signals, compared to useful contributions of indeterminate cost.
I’m sorry, but this is a ridiculous claim.
Once upon a time, I liked programming. Time spent not programming was uncomfortable, and any opportunity to involve programming with other activities was welcome. If I could program some cookies for a meetup, I would describe the cost of that as negative. Thus by analogy I’m guessing that a person who similarly likes cooking would perceive the cost of cooking (not counting the price of ingredients) as negative. Maybe I liked programming to a ridiculous degree?
In folksier terms, what’s being discussed is rationalists’ often-strange relationship to common courtesy (i.e. Lindy social dynamics).
Just so.
(Not sure where this fits in the thread or if it does, so—sorry for offtop. At least one of ours has contracted the virus, AFAIK. He told me after we have talked for a bit about another business, I asked him to comment on something and he said sure, he’d have done it sooner but for covid… I have offered our local LW people to help pay for testing if anybody needs it, without any additional questions or conclusions. So far nobody has asked for it and I do hope this means something good, like “we’re mostly healthy and have money” and not something bad, like “we would have asked for help but it’s not done”. Even to be able to offer anything meaningfully, I need people “to bring cookies”.)