There are miracle stories in many religious traditions, proving that false claims show up in purported scriptures all the time. I haven’t heard about a lot of modern accounts of non-Christian miracles though; if you have, could you send me the links? That could be substantial evidence.
Good point. Do you have any details about the “evaporation”? What actually happened in some of these cases, and how they got mistaken for miracles?
Hmm, I’m going to research Peter Popoff now...
Chinese Whispers I can believe, but many of the miracle accounts I’ve heard were written by the eyewitnesses. Maybe my priors for human honesty and reliability are too high?
This skeptic’s webpage about miraculous healings mentions a few books that give a decent idea of the sort of evaporation I mean. I think I read one of them (the one by William Nolen) years ago; the author looked into a number of cases of alleged miraculous healings, and found that in every case there was no good reason to think anything miraculous had occurred.
And yes, I think your priors for honesty and reliability may be too high. Sorry about that.
Jewish miracles aren’t evidence against Christianity-the same God is hypothesized to be behind both religions. The others are very interesting though, especially the stupa.
I am, as it happens, aware that Christianity and Judaism allegedly worship the same god! (Islam, too.) But it seems to me that if Christianity is right then present-day Judaism is importantly wrong and vice versa.
Of course it’s perfectly possible for one religion to be right and adherents of another religion to see miracles happen when they pray (or perform religious rituals, or whatever). Whatever god(s) exist might be broad-minded; or there might be deceitful evil spirits associated with wrong religions; or the miracles might actually be wrought by worshippers’ latent psychic powers, or something.
But the idea that if Christians experience what they think are miracles, then that’s good evidence for Christianity seems to me to be somewhat weakened if it turns out that miracle claims occur at comparable rates in other religions.
[EDITED to add: I see this was downvoted, and it doesn’t look as if all my recent comments are being downvoted so presumably whoever did it actually meant something by it. But it still looks OK to me; if whoever downvoted me would like to explain why then I’d be grateful. Thanks!]
Chinese Whispers I can believe, but many of the miracle accounts I’ve heard were written by the eyewitnesses. Maybe my priors for human honesty and reliability are too high?
By some estimates, replicability in scientific cancer research is about 11%. We can reasonably assume that reports of miraculous events have at least as many flaws as laboratory experiments.
Thanks for the detailed response!
There are miracle stories in many religious traditions, proving that false claims show up in purported scriptures all the time. I haven’t heard about a lot of modern accounts of non-Christian miracles though; if you have, could you send me the links? That could be substantial evidence.
Good point. Do you have any details about the “evaporation”? What actually happened in some of these cases, and how they got mistaken for miracles?
Hmm, I’m going to research Peter Popoff now...
Chinese Whispers I can believe, but many of the miracle accounts I’ve heard were written by the eyewitnesses. Maybe my priors for human honesty and reliability are too high?
I’m far from being an expert on modern miracle claims, but here are a few examples. Hindu statues drinking milk. Sundry miracles at a Buddhist stupa. Kinda-sorta-semi-miracles from a Jewish rabbi. Kinda-sorta-semi-miracles from a Muslim.
This skeptic’s webpage about miraculous healings mentions a few books that give a decent idea of the sort of evaporation I mean. I think I read one of them (the one by William Nolen) years ago; the author looked into a number of cases of alleged miraculous healings, and found that in every case there was no good reason to think anything miraculous had occurred.
And yes, I think your priors for honesty and reliability may be too high. Sorry about that.
Jewish miracles aren’t evidence against Christianity-the same God is hypothesized to be behind both religions. The others are very interesting though, especially the stupa.
I am, as it happens, aware that Christianity and Judaism allegedly worship the same god! (Islam, too.) But it seems to me that if Christianity is right then present-day Judaism is importantly wrong and vice versa.
Of course it’s perfectly possible for one religion to be right and adherents of another religion to see miracles happen when they pray (or perform religious rituals, or whatever). Whatever god(s) exist might be broad-minded; or there might be deceitful evil spirits associated with wrong religions; or the miracles might actually be wrought by worshippers’ latent psychic powers, or something.
But the idea that if Christians experience what they think are miracles, then that’s good evidence for Christianity seems to me to be somewhat weakened if it turns out that miracle claims occur at comparable rates in other religions.
[EDITED to add: I see this was downvoted, and it doesn’t look as if all my recent comments are being downvoted so presumably whoever did it actually meant something by it. But it still looks OK to me; if whoever downvoted me would like to explain why then I’d be grateful. Thanks!]
I suspect it was downvoted because it contains the words “it’s perfectly possible for one religion to be right”.
That would be sad; I think I have a higher opinion of the LW readership than that. Still, I guess anyone can have a bad day.
It’s a rather small sample size, isn’t it? I don’t think you can draw much of a conclusion from it.
Just finished the Quackwatch article. My prior for belief is dropping substantially.
By some estimates, replicability in scientific cancer research is about 11%. We can reasonably assume that reports of miraculous events have at least as many flaws as laboratory experiments.
Okay, that’s extremely unexpected. I’m going to need to perform a major update.