Full disclosure here regarding personal issues. I’m looking for advice on how to resolve them to the point where they no longer affect my life majorly. I don’t expect an issue this ingrained into my psyche to ever be gotten rid of entirely. I’m sure there are other places more directly related to the subject that I could request this advice, but LWers have usually seemed to have something useful to add to things.
Recently (toward the end of 2013), I slowed, and then stopped taking Zoloft for what was purported to be emotional instability, since I was about 7 until then, when I was 21. I do not regret doing this in the slightest, as, quite frankly, while on it I was extremely flatlined emotionally and had not grown hardly at all in that regard for years. Everything was quite dull.
I have, since then, had to resort to various techniques to calm myself, as getting off of Zoloft also revealed myself to be rather anxious, and to have had latent abandonment issues resulting in clinginess to my close friends. It is the latter part that I need help with, as most literature that I’ve found has been rather worthless in truly actionable things, as they suggest broad things to be done and little in regards to intermediary steps, or speak to the effects, consequences, and actions that should be taken when in a romantic relationship (which I am not).
Regarding how it feels when I have an episode (for the purpose of relating to it for other people with perhaps-similar issues), I want to curl up in the corner, I get panicky, and it feels like lightning’s shooting through me as a cold, heavy lump forms in my belly.
Are you taking any supplements? For normal levels of anxiety, a lot of people like l-theanine or suntheanine. For example my mother, who would be so anxious talking to people that her voice would tremble, can do it without trembling when taking such a pill an hour before. Magnesium combined with vitamin b6 is also said to have calming effects. BUT these are for normal levels of anxiety, not disorder levels. Still they may help a bit while you are looking for a real solution.
For me: I am so strongly affected by l-theanine that I wonder how ti is legal. Combining it with caffeine, which obviously don’t do if you have abnormal levels of anxiety, I feel very much running in high gear, similar to what people report about illegal central nervous system stimulants e.g. ephedrine.
Not presently taking any supplements, no. I’ll take those under consideration, though I’m kind of hesitant toward mind-altering drugs. Was a bit burned by previous SSRIs, and would rather get better under my own power. Still, it’s an option, and those are always good!
I doubt a CBC is sufficient since there are lots of things to test for. I’m far from an expert on this but my rough guess is the two most important are your magnesium level and potential vitamin B methylation problems, although again this is way out out my area of expertise. You could ask your doctor to test everything possible that might be contributing to your problem, then after he tells you the tests say “are you sure there isn’t anything extra you could add?”.
If I understand you correctly, you have some kind of hyperactive “abandonment detector” system which, if triggered, throws you into an escalating loop of alarm signals. Does that sound about right?
A therapist should have a long look at this to make sure you’re not overlooking something. For actually changing that, you might have to be in a stable relationship that lets your System 1 learn an alternate response pattern, which can supplant the other although the one you have might need years to atrophy.
Lots of people with worse issues than yours are in working relationships. It’s just a matter of being with someone who can handle you when it’s bad and is willing to discuss the matter as much as you need. Someone who can get way closer to you than we can.
Correct. My impression is that this might be an area where psychodynamic therapy might actually be better than CBT, but I don’t have research to back that up.
Not quite what I was getting at. That may be true, I’m scared of psychodynamic therapy. I suspect chaos magick might be useful in therapy, may I add, being inspired by your name. But I haven’t seen any evidence for that and you don’t experiment too much with people who want help, I say, when you can avoid it.
I’m referring more to the fact that the best evidence base for BPD is to use Dialectical behavioural therapy, which is arguably a form of CBT but you won’t get it from most CBT therapists (you won’t get good CBT therapy from most CBT therapists either probably...).
Moreover, BPD is one of the hardest things to diagnose.
That does sound approximately accurate, yes. To be honest, from what I’ve read, it’s close to a panic attack, though not quite as debilitating. I’m still able to put up some facade when in mixed company.
I don’t think that I’ll be able to afford a therapist. The closest I’ll be able to get is sites like Blahtherapy and 7 Cups of Tea, which are mostly in-training psychologists and therapists doing pro bono work for experience from what I’ve read. Not the best option, but it’s what I’ve got.
Yeah, I understand that. Under the assumption that you’re talking strictly platonic relationships, I’ve got people to help out with that, but there are few patient enough to help me out with this as much as I’d need, and those that do are concerned—rightfully so—at the dependency that would develop.
I don’t mean strictly platonic relationships, I mean an intense, deeply loving relationship where both people involved make themselves deeply vulnerable to one another. Where some degree of dependency is okay because it isn’t unilateral. These relationships can sometimes heal the people in them more deeply than therapy can.
You should look into neurofeedback which many people have used as a substitute for depression or anxiety reducing drugs. I would suggest you only do it under the care of a professional, and not attempt doing it yourself as you could make your condition worse. In the U.S. at least, neurofeedback is usually not covered by insurance, but it’s also not regulated which makes it relatively inexpensive. I did mine under a nurse. You might notice improvements after the first session, but will probably need at least 20 sessions to see any permanent changes. Some people don’t respond at all to neurofeedback.
I’ll repeat the same advice I got when I approached my doctor friends about anxiety.
Look for a clinical psychologist (language issue: I’m Canadian, not positive it is identical in the states) that has experience/specializes in anxiety issues. This was recommended after I’d done a physical—basic blood work and such—but it doesn’t sound like you have anything that would be related to physical issues.
The general feel I got was that it takes a bit of work to tailor a solution to your specific situation/triggers and doing it yourself, with your own biases (which are likely to be severe in the area of your anxiety) getting in the way of any kind of self-diagnosis or self-help. Your anxiety attack, if that is what it is, sounds severe enough to seek help.
Full disclosure here regarding personal issues. I’m looking for advice on how to resolve them to the point where they no longer affect my life majorly. I don’t expect an issue this ingrained into my psyche to ever be gotten rid of entirely. I’m sure there are other places more directly related to the subject that I could request this advice, but LWers have usually seemed to have something useful to add to things.
Recently (toward the end of 2013), I slowed, and then stopped taking Zoloft for what was purported to be emotional instability, since I was about 7 until then, when I was 21. I do not regret doing this in the slightest, as, quite frankly, while on it I was extremely flatlined emotionally and had not grown hardly at all in that regard for years. Everything was quite dull.
I have, since then, had to resort to various techniques to calm myself, as getting off of Zoloft also revealed myself to be rather anxious, and to have had latent abandonment issues resulting in clinginess to my close friends. It is the latter part that I need help with, as most literature that I’ve found has been rather worthless in truly actionable things, as they suggest broad things to be done and little in regards to intermediary steps, or speak to the effects, consequences, and actions that should be taken when in a romantic relationship (which I am not).
Regarding how it feels when I have an episode (for the purpose of relating to it for other people with perhaps-similar issues), I want to curl up in the corner, I get panicky, and it feels like lightning’s shooting through me as a cold, heavy lump forms in my belly.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Are you taking any supplements? For normal levels of anxiety, a lot of people like l-theanine or suntheanine. For example my mother, who would be so anxious talking to people that her voice would tremble, can do it without trembling when taking such a pill an hour before. Magnesium combined with vitamin b6 is also said to have calming effects. BUT these are for normal levels of anxiety, not disorder levels. Still they may help a bit while you are looking for a real solution.
For me: I am so strongly affected by l-theanine that I wonder how ti is legal. Combining it with caffeine, which obviously don’t do if you have abnormal levels of anxiety, I feel very much running in high gear, similar to what people report about illegal central nervous system stimulants e.g. ephedrine.
Not presently taking any supplements, no. I’ll take those under consideration, though I’m kind of hesitant toward mind-altering drugs. Was a bit burned by previous SSRIs, and would rather get better under my own power. Still, it’s an option, and those are always good!
Your problem might be exasperated by a deficiency in some nutrient.
What would I ask for the next time I visit my GP to determine that? Would a CBC suffice, or would I need to ask for some more specific blood test?
I doubt a CBC is sufficient since there are lots of things to test for. I’m far from an expert on this but my rough guess is the two most important are your magnesium level and potential vitamin B methylation problems, although again this is way out out my area of expertise. You could ask your doctor to test everything possible that might be contributing to your problem, then after he tells you the tests say “are you sure there isn’t anything extra you could add?”.
If I understand you correctly, you have some kind of hyperactive “abandonment detector” system which, if triggered, throws you into an escalating loop of alarm signals. Does that sound about right?
A therapist should have a long look at this to make sure you’re not overlooking something. For actually changing that, you might have to be in a stable relationship that lets your System 1 learn an alternate response pattern, which can supplant the other although the one you have might need years to atrophy.
Lots of people with worse issues than yours are in working relationships. It’s just a matter of being with someone who can handle you when it’s bad and is willing to discuss the matter as much as you need. Someone who can get way closer to you than we can.
Sorry, this was an useless post so now it’s gone
Correct. My impression is that this might be an area where psychodynamic therapy might actually be better than CBT, but I don’t have research to back that up.
Not quite what I was getting at. That may be true, I’m scared of psychodynamic therapy. I suspect chaos magick might be useful in therapy, may I add, being inspired by your name. But I haven’t seen any evidence for that and you don’t experiment too much with people who want help, I say, when you can avoid it.
I’m referring more to the fact that the best evidence base for BPD is to use Dialectical behavioural therapy, which is arguably a form of CBT but you won’t get it from most CBT therapists (you won’t get good CBT therapy from most CBT therapists either probably...).
Moreover, BPD is one of the hardest things to diagnose.
That does sound approximately accurate, yes. To be honest, from what I’ve read, it’s close to a panic attack, though not quite as debilitating. I’m still able to put up some facade when in mixed company.
I don’t think that I’ll be able to afford a therapist. The closest I’ll be able to get is sites like Blahtherapy and 7 Cups of Tea, which are mostly in-training psychologists and therapists doing pro bono work for experience from what I’ve read. Not the best option, but it’s what I’ve got.
Yeah, I understand that. Under the assumption that you’re talking strictly platonic relationships, I’ve got people to help out with that, but there are few patient enough to help me out with this as much as I’d need, and those that do are concerned—rightfully so—at the dependency that would develop.
You’re fairly new here, so maybe you haven’t read through the material at http://slatestarcodex.com yet. Do that: You get tons of good insights, and some of the information there (including the discussion sections) might apply to your situation, such as http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/13/getting-a-therapist/ , http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ and http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ .
I don’t mean strictly platonic relationships, I mean an intense, deeply loving relationship where both people involved make themselves deeply vulnerable to one another. Where some degree of dependency is okay because it isn’t unilateral. These relationships can sometimes heal the people in them more deeply than therapy can.
You should look into neurofeedback which many people have used as a substitute for depression or anxiety reducing drugs. I would suggest you only do it under the care of a professional, and not attempt doing it yourself as you could make your condition worse. In the U.S. at least, neurofeedback is usually not covered by insurance, but it’s also not regulated which makes it relatively inexpensive. I did mine under a nurse. You might notice improvements after the first session, but will probably need at least 20 sessions to see any permanent changes. Some people don’t respond at all to neurofeedback.
Which type of neurofeedback did you do?
I’m not sure of the name.
Looks like you still need to see a pro, only a therapist, not a psychiatrist.
http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22
I’d recommend using these guided meditations. (Way easier than unguided meditation IMO)
You can use them immediately upon onset of the episode. Use the longer ones. It’s a better way to use time compared to curling up in a corner.
I’ll repeat the same advice I got when I approached my doctor friends about anxiety.
Look for a clinical psychologist (language issue: I’m Canadian, not positive it is identical in the states) that has experience/specializes in anxiety issues. This was recommended after I’d done a physical—basic blood work and such—but it doesn’t sound like you have anything that would be related to physical issues.
The general feel I got was that it takes a bit of work to tailor a solution to your specific situation/triggers and doing it yourself, with your own biases (which are likely to be severe in the area of your anxiety) getting in the way of any kind of self-diagnosis or self-help. Your anxiety attack, if that is what it is, sounds severe enough to seek help.