I think it would be interesting but I see no good reason to do a retreat for specifically for rationalists. I’m not sure whether there are people in this community who are at the 10,000 hour skill level. It’s probably easier to find that outside.
I’m apologizing in advance for a bit of bit irreducible spirituality. I try to keep it to a minimum.
I have two experiences of group meditations among rationalists. On was last year at the European Community Camp in Berlin. It felt like there was nobody in the room who gave the thing stability. In the dose of 15-20 minutes that’s not harmful but I wouldn’t expect a few days in that state to be good.
I lead a meditation during the solstice celebration in Leipzig and only used 20 minutes of 30 that I had asked for on the agenda, because that felt enough.
In total that leads me to think that meditation makes a decent agenda item at an LW event but no good program for a complete day. At least without someone to lead the event who really knows what they are doing.
I think it would be interesting but I see no good reason to do a retreat for specifically for rationalists.
Many meditation retreats are heavy on the woo, and so it may be more pleasant for rationalists to go to one that isn’t woo-heavy (and I don’t think it’d be easy to judge that from the outside).
I’m not sure whether there are people in this community who are at the 10,000 hour skill level. It’s probably easier to find that outside.
This is the more serious concern, I think. Perhaps there is someone with the meditation skill who can quickly drop the woo from the way they describe it? But even if they’re an expert at meditation, what you really want is an expert at teaching, and changing around how they can teach could quickly destroy that expertise.
(and I don’t think it’d be easy to judge that from the outside).
There are people in this community who were participants of meditation retreats that you can ask for recommendations. That will likely give you much better information than reading advertisements.
Perhaps there is someone with the meditation skill who can quickly drop the woo from the way they describe it?
This assumes the main issue with way is people describing it. If you as an atheist have a vision of Christ raising from the cross, then the thing you want isn’t a person who leads the meditation who doesn’t answer questions and says “Trust the process”. You want someone to tell you: “Hey, part of meditation is that you can get visions. That doesn’t mean they are real. There no good reason to believe in them. I have had plenty of visions during meditation in which I don’t believe.”
That’s how Danis Bois handles the issue. I did a 5 day seminar with him this summer. Each of the days had less than 1 hour of pure meditation. and there was plenty of lecture time.
Some openness to be confronted with things you consider to be very improbable is simply part of the process.
Being treated like a child who’s not ready to hear certain things isn’t good. Scientology 101 contains no woo at all. Luke wrote about it as a very valuable experience. Later they teach about Xenu. That’s not the kind of environment you want as a rationalist.
You want to have questions that you ask honestly answered. I’m okay with not being told things I don’t ask, but it no easy area. I also marvel at the ability of Danis to say things where the answer is hidden in plain sight for half of the audience who isn’t ready to hear it.
I think it would be interesting but I see no good reason to do a retreat for specifically for rationalists. I’m not sure whether there are people in this community who are at the 10,000 hour skill level. It’s probably easier to find that outside.
I’m apologizing in advance for a bit of bit irreducible spirituality. I try to keep it to a minimum.
I have two experiences of group meditations among rationalists. On was last year at the European Community Camp in Berlin. It felt like there was nobody in the room who gave the thing stability. In the dose of 15-20 minutes that’s not harmful but I wouldn’t expect a few days in that state to be good.
I lead a meditation during the solstice celebration in Leipzig and only used 20 minutes of 30 that I had asked for on the agenda, because that felt enough.
In total that leads me to think that meditation makes a decent agenda item at an LW event but no good program for a complete day. At least without someone to lead the event who really knows what they are doing.
Many meditation retreats are heavy on the woo, and so it may be more pleasant for rationalists to go to one that isn’t woo-heavy (and I don’t think it’d be easy to judge that from the outside).
This is the more serious concern, I think. Perhaps there is someone with the meditation skill who can quickly drop the woo from the way they describe it? But even if they’re an expert at meditation, what you really want is an expert at teaching, and changing around how they can teach could quickly destroy that expertise.
There are people in this community who were participants of meditation retreats that you can ask for recommendations. That will likely give you much better information than reading advertisements.
This assumes the main issue with way is people describing it. If you as an atheist have a vision of Christ raising from the cross, then the thing you want isn’t a person who leads the meditation who doesn’t answer questions and says “Trust the process”. You want someone to tell you: “Hey, part of meditation is that you can get visions. That doesn’t mean they are real. There no good reason to believe in them. I have had plenty of visions during meditation in which I don’t believe.”
That’s how Danis Bois handles the issue. I did a 5 day seminar with him this summer. Each of the days had less than 1 hour of pure meditation. and there was plenty of lecture time.
Some openness to be confronted with things you consider to be very improbable is simply part of the process.
Being treated like a child who’s not ready to hear certain things isn’t good. Scientology 101 contains no woo at all. Luke wrote about it as a very valuable experience. Later they teach about Xenu. That’s not the kind of environment you want as a rationalist.
You want to have questions that you ask honestly answered. I’m okay with not being told things I don’t ask, but it no easy area. I also marvel at the ability of Danis to say things where the answer is hidden in plain sight for half of the audience who isn’t ready to hear it.
Good point, thank you.