While I was reading Harry Potter, I kept thinking that the House system was destructive, both in terms of making people impose restrictions on themselves, and creating deep divisions in the wizarding world. Hogwarts is in this sense the primary cause of both the previous and the coming wizard war.
In Eliezer’s fiction, it’s more apparent that the Hogwarts house system is a mindless, destructive mechanism set in motion hundreds of years ago that no one person can change or escape. Even Dumbledore couldn’t abolish the house system; the political pressure would pop him out of Hogwarts like a cork from a champagne bottle.
I don’t understand why Dumbledore can’t maintain order among the students and protect them from each other, though… it seems to be within the powers of the Hogwarts faculty, if they set their minds to it.
Dumbledore and McGonagall’s weaknesses are more apparent in Eliezer’s fiction. Which would score realism points with me, except that the deconstruction of the perfect Dumbledore is balanced by the imagination of a perfect Harry.
Dumbledore and McGonagall’s weaknesses are more apparent in Eliezer’s fiction. Which would score realism points with me, except that the deconstruction of the perfect Dumbledore is balanced by the imagination of a perfect Harry.
Harry is far from perfect. He has his own glaring weaknesses. He’s excessively clever (sometimes at the expense of wise or rational), his ego clouds his decisions, he is paranoid, incapable of relating to humans normally and shows disconcerting tendencies towards codependency.
While I was reading Harry Potter, I kept thinking that the House system was destructive, both in terms of making people impose restrictions on themselves, and creating deep divisions in the wizarding world.
It’s based to the actual House system used in British boarding schools.
Well, these days college intake is fairly mixed up among different personalities and backgrounds. Taking Cambridge, most people jokingly hates St John’s and think Homerton are less intelligent. The rivalries probably stemmed from some historical background though.
But really, just grouping people randomly is enough for some hostility. We only don’t actually hate each other because we have to work together sometimes.
Taking Cambridge, most people jokingly hates St John’s and think Homerton are less intelligent.
In my ~10 years at the university, I don’t recall ever meeting anyone who joked about hating St John’s. And for most of that time I was at Trinity, where you might think John’s-hatred (jocular or otherwise) would be strongest.
Until rather recently, Homerton didn’t take students in any subject other than Education. Whether that actually meant its students were less intelligent than those of other colleges, I don’t know, but it’s not an entirely crazy idea. (I think Homerton’s subject balance is still quite different from those of the other colleges.)
[EDITED to add: For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t mean that people reading education are particularly unintelligent-by-Cambridge-standards. Only that (1) intelligence surely does vary somewhat by subject, and (2) some subjects have the reputation of requiring particularly high intelligence and education isn’t one of them. So if there’s a stereotype of Homerton students being less intelligent, it probably has causes less crazy, though not necessarily more correct, than mere historical rivalries.]
I was a grad student at Churchill, and we mostly ignored such things, but my girlfriend was an undergrad and felt compelled to educate me. I recall Johns being the rich kids, Peterhouse was the gay men (not sure if that’s for an actual reason or just the obvious pun), and a couple others that I can’t remember off the top of my head.
And one thing that IS reasonably accurate: New Hall is a female version of Hufflepuff. It is most of the time filled up by the “leftovers” (pooled there)...
A lot of the “hate” between colleges is perpetuated in the same way as most Cambridge traditions. Freshers read on wikipedia what Cambridge traditions are and then emulate them. There is belief in belief that people from St Johns are horrible but not much more.
In 1993, when I matriculated at Caltech (whose House system Wikipedia claims is based on Cambridge’s college system), we got a handbook (the little t) with all of the traditions in it.
MoR Harry did seem like a Marty Stu in the early chapters, but the further I read, the less I thought so. For one thing, his intelligence is balanced out by egotism, insensitivity, and inability to think in the longterm. For another, most of his really impressive feats of intellect and willpower are actually owed to Voldemort’s horcrux (his “dark side”), which means Harry doesn’t get full credit for them. I think MoR Harry is far from perfect.
You’re totally right about the house system, though. That’s why I really love the subplot about Quirrel’s armies; it breaks up the house system and lets all the students interact more. I’m so glad we got to know the Slytherin girls...
MoR Harry did seem like a Marty Stu in the early chapters, but the further I read, the less I thought so. For one thing, his intelligence is balanced out by egotism, insensitivity, and inability to think in the longterm. For another, most of his really impressive feats of intellect and willpower are actually owed to Voldemort’s horcrux (his “dark side”), which means Harry doesn’t get full credit for them. I think MoR Harry is far from perfect.
Wait… you don’t attribute dark side Harry to Harry? Damn. They’re the main parts I empathize with!
BTW, we’re told in canon there are other schools for wizards and witches, but everyone famous seems to have gone to Hogwarts. Why? There isn’t even an entrance exam, and most of the teachers are incompetent; so it can’t be either their selectiveness or the quality of their education.
How can we estimate the number of witches and wizards in the world from canon? And, also, the number of students at Hogwarts?
How can we estimate the number of witches and wizards in the world from canon? And, also, the number of students at Hogwarts?
J. K. Rowling was never too bothered with the numbers (by her own admission). In particular the total number of students in Hogwarts is portrayed as much greater than the number of students per year multiplied by seven, and the wizarding world is absurdly small but still far too large to account for the fact that there appears to be only one school in Britain.
The sadder thing is that Eliezer doesn’t seem particularly bothered with numbers either. The “armies” each of the generals have are mentioned to have 24 soldiers each.
24x3=72 students in the first year. This would only make sense if the size of the classes in MoR were about twice as big as in canon. But MoR has never mentioned a single non-canonical first-year student, as far as I can remember, which would imply the opposite, that the sizes of the classes must be about as big as in canon (namely about 40 students in the first year, all houses combined).
EDIT TO ADD: above comment now retracted as factually false, see comments below.
The sadder thing is that Eliezer doesn’t seem particularly bothered with numbers either.
I beg your pardon. Check Ch. 30 and you should see some non-canonical first-year student cameos in Draco’s army. For, may I mention, exactly that reason—I was explicitly familiar with the dilemma of the discordant Rowling statements and decided to resolve in favor of Hogwarts having around a thousand students, so that having around half the students sign up for the armies would give you 72 first-year soldiers.
Most of the teachers? Binns and Trelawney certainly, Snape, but arguably he’s more unprofessional and unpleasant than incompetent. Often the defense professor is incompetent, I suppose. Canon!Harry had Lupin, Snape and fake Moody for competent defense professors and Quirrel, Lockhart and Umbridge for incompetent ones. We have no reason to doubt the teaching ability of Mcgonagall, Flitwick, Sprout, Sinistra, Vector or Babbling. Burbage’s Muggle studies course is often a subject of ridicule in fanfiction, but that might be a result of the (inter?)-national curriculum rather than her individual competence, and so would be no better at other schools. Hagrid’s Care of Magical Creature’s lessons were of very uneven quality, but he could teach well when he had his head together.
As to the preeminence of Hogwarts, perhaps its as simple as Hogwarts being the only British school with a comprehensive curriculum, the others focusing on particular areas of magic and functioning more or less as magical trade schools. We don’t technically know that there’s no entrance exam for the common witch or wizard, we just know Harry didn’t have to take one, he could have been admitted as a legacy student or simply because he’s the boy-who-lived. Or the barrier could be financial.
While I was reading Harry Potter, I kept thinking that the House system was destructive, both in terms of making people impose restrictions on themselves, and creating deep divisions in the wizarding world. Hogwarts is in this sense the primary cause of both the previous and the coming wizard war.
In Eliezer’s fiction, it’s more apparent that the Hogwarts house system is a mindless, destructive mechanism set in motion hundreds of years ago that no one person can change or escape. Even Dumbledore couldn’t abolish the house system; the political pressure would pop him out of Hogwarts like a cork from a champagne bottle.
I don’t understand why Dumbledore can’t maintain order among the students and protect them from each other, though… it seems to be within the powers of the Hogwarts faculty, if they set their minds to it.
Dumbledore and McGonagall’s weaknesses are more apparent in Eliezer’s fiction. Which would score realism points with me, except that the deconstruction of the perfect Dumbledore is balanced by the imagination of a perfect Harry.
Harry is far from perfect. He has his own glaring weaknesses. He’s excessively clever (sometimes at the expense of wise or rational), his ego clouds his decisions, he is paranoid, incapable of relating to humans normally and shows disconcerting tendencies towards codependency.
It’s based to the actual House system used in British boarding schools.
Yeah, but they don’t determine your house by your personality or beliefs about blood purity.
How about the different colleges in British universities? Do the members of Balliol hate the members of Merton?
Well, these days college intake is fairly mixed up among different personalities and backgrounds. Taking Cambridge, most people jokingly hates St John’s and think Homerton are less intelligent. The rivalries probably stemmed from some historical background though.
But really, just grouping people randomly is enough for some hostility. We only don’t actually hate each other because we have to work together sometimes.
Dumbledore needs to say that Hogwarts has run out of water, and make the houses cooperate to get a new water supply.
Slytherin would defect and free-ride, alas, tiding itself over with _Aguamenti_s.
In my ~10 years at the university, I don’t recall ever meeting anyone who joked about hating St John’s. And for most of that time I was at Trinity, where you might think John’s-hatred (jocular or otherwise) would be strongest.
Until rather recently, Homerton didn’t take students in any subject other than Education. Whether that actually meant its students were less intelligent than those of other colleges, I don’t know, but it’s not an entirely crazy idea. (I think Homerton’s subject balance is still quite different from those of the other colleges.)
[EDITED to add: For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t mean that people reading education are particularly unintelligent-by-Cambridge-standards. Only that (1) intelligence surely does vary somewhat by subject, and (2) some subjects have the reputation of requiring particularly high intelligence and education isn’t one of them. So if there’s a stereotype of Homerton students being less intelligent, it probably has causes less crazy, though not necessarily more correct, than mere historical rivalries.]
I’ve done one year at Trinity as an undergraduate, and I’ve already heard many anti-St Johns references.
I was a grad student at Churchill, and we mostly ignored such things, but my girlfriend was an undergrad and felt compelled to educate me. I recall Johns being the rich kids, Peterhouse was the gay men (not sure if that’s for an actual reason or just the obvious pun), and a couple others that I can’t remember off the top of my head.
I thought Homerton was the obvious gay pun?
And one thing that IS reasonably accurate: New Hall is a female version of Hufflepuff. It is most of the time filled up by the “leftovers” (pooled there)...
A lot of the “hate” between colleges is perpetuated in the same way as most Cambridge traditions. Freshers read on wikipedia what Cambridge traditions are and then emulate them. There is belief in belief that people from St Johns are horrible but not much more.
Well, these traditions somehow propagated before the internet.
In 1993, when I matriculated at Caltech (whose House system Wikipedia claims is based on Cambridge’s college system), we got a handbook (the little t) with all of the traditions in it.
That’s pretty much the way Hogwarts works, right?
MoR Harry did seem like a Marty Stu in the early chapters, but the further I read, the less I thought so. For one thing, his intelligence is balanced out by egotism, insensitivity, and inability to think in the longterm. For another, most of his really impressive feats of intellect and willpower are actually owed to Voldemort’s horcrux (his “dark side”), which means Harry doesn’t get full credit for them. I think MoR Harry is far from perfect.
You’re totally right about the house system, though. That’s why I really love the subplot about Quirrel’s armies; it breaks up the house system and lets all the students interact more. I’m so glad we got to know the Slytherin girls...
Wait… you don’t attribute dark side Harry to Harry? Damn. They’re the main parts I empathize with!
BTW, we’re told in canon there are other schools for wizards and witches, but everyone famous seems to have gone to Hogwarts. Why? There isn’t even an entrance exam, and most of the teachers are incompetent; so it can’t be either their selectiveness or the quality of their education.
How can we estimate the number of witches and wizards in the world from canon? And, also, the number of students at Hogwarts?
J. K. Rowling was never too bothered with the numbers (by her own admission). In particular the total number of students in Hogwarts is portrayed as much greater than the number of students per year multiplied by seven, and the wizarding world is absurdly small but still far too large to account for the fact that there appears to be only one school in Britain.
The sadder thing is that Eliezer doesn’t seem particularly bothered with numbers either. The “armies” each of the generals have are mentioned to have 24 soldiers each.
24x3=72 students in the first year. This would only make sense if the size of the classes in MoR were about twice as big as in canon. But MoR has never mentioned a single non-canonical first-year student, as far as I can remember, which would imply the opposite, that the sizes of the classes must be about as big as in canon (namely about 40 students in the first year, all houses combined).
EDIT TO ADD: above comment now retracted as factually false, see comments below.
I beg your pardon. Check Ch. 30 and you should see some non-canonical first-year student cameos in Draco’s army. For, may I mention, exactly that reason—I was explicitly familiar with the dilemma of the discordant Rowling statements and decided to resolve in favor of Hogwarts having around a thousand students, so that having around half the students sign up for the armies would give you 72 first-year soldiers.
Ah, nice. I also see some names like “Melvin Coote of Gryffindor” and “Allen Flint” of Slytherin, in the Chaos army.
Apologies for the mistake.
Most of the teachers? Binns and Trelawney certainly, Snape, but arguably he’s more unprofessional and unpleasant than incompetent. Often the defense professor is incompetent, I suppose. Canon!Harry had Lupin, Snape and fake Moody for competent defense professors and Quirrel, Lockhart and Umbridge for incompetent ones. We have no reason to doubt the teaching ability of Mcgonagall, Flitwick, Sprout, Sinistra, Vector or Babbling. Burbage’s Muggle studies course is often a subject of ridicule in fanfiction, but that might be a result of the (inter?)-national curriculum rather than her individual competence, and so would be no better at other schools. Hagrid’s Care of Magical Creature’s lessons were of very uneven quality, but he could teach well when he had his head together.
As to the preeminence of Hogwarts, perhaps its as simple as Hogwarts being the only British school with a comprehensive curriculum, the others focusing on particular areas of magic and functioning more or less as magical trade schools. We don’t technically know that there’s no entrance exam for the common witch or wizard, we just know Harry didn’t have to take one, he could have been admitted as a legacy student or simply because he’s the boy-who-lived. Or the barrier could be financial.