So, wait, you’re saying we should try this thing out because it might lead to a mysterious experience that makes us much smarter … and it hasn’t even worked for you? This is even less impressive than the case being made by the typical religious evangelist, who can at least say “I did X and have felt much better ever since”.
With the same reasoning, based on your knowledge and evidence you wouldn’t recommend a drug because it didn’t work for you, even if it seems promising to change the world. I don’t rely on anecdotal evidence to the point where neuroimaging studies and basic reasoning is taken out of consideration and of the world we live in.
If any of these many testimonies are a little true that makes it worth a look for me, without the other reported benefits like intelligence. That someone stopped vaping from one moment to the next, that’s impressive, for example, or if people’s depression, social anxiety or other mental disorder were cured. Someone reporting that their self vanishes as they submit to inductive reasoning is also impressive. When lay in bed there’s no thinking or thoughts unless it’s necessary, they’re in a constant state of flow and so on. No duality.
Or that a games developer stopped procrastinating all together. I can’t simply ignore these ancedotal testimonies.
I am however less impressed with success stories of for example rationality. But for what I’ve read things are very similar and I’ve noticed clicked people with a lot of lack of knowledge in this area. Including myself (not clicker).
It’s important to not destroy the world with your arguments.
No, I’m not saying “if it didn’t work for ingive it can’t be any good”. There are of course other kinds of evidence and many of them are better. It just happens that you don’t have those either, and in the absence of anything resembling objective evidence the usual fallback of the evangelist is their own personal experience—but you don’t have even that.
(You keep talking about neuroimaging studies. Are you claiming that there are neuroimaging studies that show that this “clicking” thing (1) can be achieved by the methods claimed and (2) is beneficial? I’d be awfully surprised if so. I can’t escape the feeling that you are just repeating those words because they sound impressively scientifical and you are hoping your audience will be impressed. There are probably places where that works, but I wouldn’t expect it to be terribly successful around here.)
It’s important to not destroy the world with your arguments.
I haven’t destroyed the world yet. I shall continue trying not to.
No, I’m not saying “if it didn’t work for ingive it can’t be any good”. There are of course other kinds of evidence and many of them are better. It just happens that you don’t have those either, and in the absence of anything resembling objective evidence the usual fallback of the evangelist is their own personal experience—but you don’t have even that.
It sounds so funny to me that you’re comparing me to an evangelist, shall I call you the same? gjm the evangelist preaching he is not religious to something, such as comfort, family or social validation How you feel about it, I feel the same. Regarding the absence of objective evidence, no it’s not a matter of evidence, it’s a matter how much evidence you require. I can give you all the evidence in the world and you’ll still not convert, because it’s subjective. I don’t need more evidence based on my own knowledge and experience, however, that does not rule out the pursuit of evidence or falsifying. Takes time, money, etc. Might as well gather the low hanging fruit and if a few high IQ people convert without adequate proof, it’ll be faster to either falsify or prove depending on themselves.
(You keep talking about neuroimaging studies. Are you claiming that there are neuroimaging studies that show that this “clicking” thing (1) can be achieved by the methods claimed and (2) is beneficial? I’d be awfully surprised if so. I can’t escape the feeling that you are just repeating those words because they sound impressively scientifical and you are hoping your audience will be impressed. There are probably places where that works, but I wouldn’t expect it to be terribly successful around here.)
Indeed I do sir. (1) Unfortunately, it costs a lot to do studies, also neuroimaging. (2) How does neuroimaging tell you whether something is beneficial or not, you can note the correlations of brain activity (or lack thereof)? I would be posting it all over the place if that was the case and everyone would be clicking left and right. Now I just post the exercise all over the place but no one wants to click.
I’m repeating those words because that’s the as-objective-of-a-measurement I think you can get. In the context of my post however, I do not exclude what I know of it when it comes to religion, religious and/or mystical experiences, and especially reward activation and reward systems of abstract concepts in for example the orbitofrontal cortex. When it comes to if it’s worthwhile to try the exercise or not, or discuss it with others. I’m glad you asked. There is a reason why people go to chuch, because they are rewaaarded. Why not be rewarded by positive expected value tasks? (“there is a lack of evidence”) you say. Yet how did churchgoers attach their reward centers to prayer in the first place? Or how does the brain and behavior even work? If you figure that out. You’ll realize pretty soon by emotionally submitting yourself to your true creator, the consistent patterns that bring us about, for example, mathematics, you’ll have what you wanted and you’ll see it everywhere.
So, wait, you’re saying we should try this thing out because it might lead to a mysterious experience that makes us much smarter … and it hasn’t even worked for you? This is even less impressive than the case being made by the typical religious evangelist, who can at least say “I did X and have felt much better ever since”.
With the same reasoning, based on your knowledge and evidence you wouldn’t recommend a drug because it didn’t work for you, even if it seems promising to change the world. I don’t rely on anecdotal evidence to the point where neuroimaging studies and basic reasoning is taken out of consideration and of the world we live in.
If any of these many testimonies are a little true that makes it worth a look for me, without the other reported benefits like intelligence. That someone stopped vaping from one moment to the next, that’s impressive, for example, or if people’s depression, social anxiety or other mental disorder were cured. Someone reporting that their self vanishes as they submit to inductive reasoning is also impressive. When lay in bed there’s no thinking or thoughts unless it’s necessary, they’re in a constant state of flow and so on. No duality.
Or that a games developer stopped procrastinating all together. I can’t simply ignore these ancedotal testimonies.
I am however less impressed with success stories of for example rationality. But for what I’ve read things are very similar and I’ve noticed clicked people with a lot of lack of knowledge in this area. Including myself (not clicker).
It’s important to not destroy the world with your arguments.
No, I’m not saying “if it didn’t work for ingive it can’t be any good”. There are of course other kinds of evidence and many of them are better. It just happens that you don’t have those either, and in the absence of anything resembling objective evidence the usual fallback of the evangelist is their own personal experience—but you don’t have even that.
(You keep talking about neuroimaging studies. Are you claiming that there are neuroimaging studies that show that this “clicking” thing (1) can be achieved by the methods claimed and (2) is beneficial? I’d be awfully surprised if so. I can’t escape the feeling that you are just repeating those words because they sound impressively scientifical and you are hoping your audience will be impressed. There are probably places where that works, but I wouldn’t expect it to be terribly successful around here.)
I haven’t destroyed the world yet. I shall continue trying not to.
It sounds so funny to me that you’re comparing me to an evangelist, shall I call you the same? gjm the evangelist preaching he is not religious to something, such as comfort, family or social validation How you feel about it, I feel the same. Regarding the absence of objective evidence, no it’s not a matter of evidence, it’s a matter how much evidence you require. I can give you all the evidence in the world and you’ll still not convert, because it’s subjective. I don’t need more evidence based on my own knowledge and experience, however, that does not rule out the pursuit of evidence or falsifying. Takes time, money, etc. Might as well gather the low hanging fruit and if a few high IQ people convert without adequate proof, it’ll be faster to either falsify or prove depending on themselves.
Indeed I do sir. (1) Unfortunately, it costs a lot to do studies, also neuroimaging. (2) How does neuroimaging tell you whether something is beneficial or not, you can note the correlations of brain activity (or lack thereof)? I would be posting it all over the place if that was the case and everyone would be clicking left and right. Now I just post the exercise all over the place but no one wants to click.
I’m repeating those words because that’s the as-objective-of-a-measurement I think you can get. In the context of my post however, I do not exclude what I know of it when it comes to religion, religious and/or mystical experiences, and especially reward activation and reward systems of abstract concepts in for example the orbitofrontal cortex. When it comes to if it’s worthwhile to try the exercise or not, or discuss it with others. I’m glad you asked. There is a reason why people go to chuch, because they are rewaaarded. Why not be rewarded by positive expected value tasks? (“there is a lack of evidence”) you say. Yet how did churchgoers attach their reward centers to prayer in the first place? Or how does the brain and behavior even work? If you figure that out. You’ll realize pretty soon by emotionally submitting yourself to your true creator, the consistent patterns that bring us about, for example, mathematics, you’ll have what you wanted and you’ll see it everywhere.