Well, I’m the person on LW who hasn’t seen you posting that link in previous open threads, so if you want to make your point to a a fresh mind here’s your best bet.
I would suggest you to do the 48 min binaural/hypnosis as well, although it seems new age-y with the title, it probably has some scientific basis. I’m quite sure it’s very good for emotions. But I am just speculating. It’s very nice and relaxing and I think you will like it. It’s important that we use every tool available to us to recondition our minds to be more in line with reality, logic, rationality and so on.
I’m unsure to what extent you used System 2 emotionally (visualization and so on), rather than System 1 and System 2 sub-vocalization. Sub-vocalization and thinking does not resonate as well as visualizing images, touch, smell, taste and other more primitive things.
I’ll be happier if I try to attach a positive (rather than neutral) emotional connotation to the concepts of logic and rationality. This seems fair enough. I already do, as it happens, and it does make me happier.
Yeah, you probably have quite a strong emotional connection to it, as well as many others here. Remember also how it’s defined in this context: The consistent patterns which bring about reality. Also includes probabilities.
Consider what motivates me on an emotional level. Okay, fair enough, useful exercise.
Yeah.
“Submit” myself to a higher power, namely logic. You’re losing me a bit here with the “personal Lord and Savior” stuff, I’m not sure how “submitting myself” factors into trying to live a rational life, but let’s read on. Let go of self and work for the betterment of the whole world—alright, that’s nice. Not new, but nice.
I’m unsure why you would think, based on what was said on that step, that you’re submitting yourself to a higher power and it’s “personal Lord and Savior” stuff. Well I do understand why, it seems like a religion, and that’s exactly key, but maybe you exaggerate it a little bit. It’s funny though. By submitting yourself to inductive reasoning, probabilistic nature of things, and of course, the consistent patterns that bring you about and realizing experience is a tool rather then a goal, you have mastered the Way. There is nothing more, nothing less, it’s just how it is.
Come and live with a group of like-minded people in Germany. What?
That’s not a part of the steps.
Keep living rationally and all my problems will disappear. Hang on.
Ingive, while I can charitably boil down a lot of what you’re saying to something that makes sense (though none of it is original)
I’m glad it’s making sense, based on the comments here, I was becoming worried that a lot of people were not able to let aside their preconditioned beliefs.
you absolutely lost me when you started promising people that if they “submit to logic” all their problems will disappear, even physiological/neurochemical ones.
That’s what we have seen so far. People really notice something have changed. Of course those with physiological/neurochemical imbalances or whatever won’t be cured but they will probably have an easier time to work out how to solve their problems with our species current literature.
Will I stop having periods too? Sign me up! Seriously, all the things mentioned there might have one foot in emotion/cognition but they have another foot in biology.
None of the things mentioned is exclusively rooted in biology. Regarding periods I remember one woman who reported having an easier time dealing with the emotional swings that come with it by for example studying hormonal effects on emotion/cognition. The knowledge becomes applicable naturally.
Those are cult-promises. “Think a certain way, you will be happy forever, every possible problem will disappear—if it doesn’t, you’re not trying hard enough. Lose weight, stop smoking, get a girlfriend—whatever! Its universally applicable!”
Of course you will think for yourself, and logic will simply be a guide through life. It does sound too good to be true, there is no understatement to the paradigm shift of a religious experience.
I don’t see why you’d be putting all this effort into spreading the message if you didn’t believe it—you’re not asking for money—so I’l accept that you do. And if it makes you happy and helps keeps you productive and mentally healthy, that’s fine. But going around telling people that they can make their depression go away if they just snap—or “click”—out of it isn’t just wrong, it’s morally wrong.
That’s the word for the paradigm shift. There’s not enough statistics and science to conclude if it is the case, however anecdotal reports have offered a perspective.
You are presenting ways of thinking—let go of self, love truth for its own sake, relinquish material desire etc. - that have been around for thousands of years, with a bit of “quantum” and “neuro” chucked in.
Because our understanding of QM and neuroscience gives us the same conclusion, while still being right and in line.
Look, I’m glad you found your zen, but I don’t think you’re going to find many takers for this here—or anywhere, unless you deliberately seek out the mentally vulnerable, like drug addicts and depressives and social anxiety sufferers. Please do not do that.
It’s not as if these things were made up beforehand, people were helped and it is worthwhile to mention. 23 hits of “social anxiety” 29 of “depress” and 12 of “drug” https://logicnation.org/Testimonies although it might be not representative since some might use the words in different contexts or multiple times.
It’s not as if these things were made up beforehand, people were helped and it is worthwhile to mention.
If you said may instead of will it wouldn’t set off the alarm bells. “Will” is a promise. If what you mean is “other people have reported experiencing these effects”, I’d recommend saying that instead. The list of “you will” points looks like advertising at best and culty at worst.
Honestly ingive, there’s not a massive amount wrong with what you’re saying that I can see, except that it’s all dressed up to the nines in semi-mystical language and presented as an epiphany or conversion rather than as a sensible set of guidelines.
Imagine I linked to a webpage that just said:
“Try to feel good about living life rationally. Know thyself—question why you want things. Question whether the things you want are really necessary for your happiness. Identify your most meaningful goals. Remember that you’re part of something bigger than yourself. Try to focus on living for the benefit of others. Keep thinking this way and you’ll probably feel more content and less worried about trivial things, and get more done.”
I guarantee I wouldn’t be getting all the flak you have here. People wouldn’t be saying “snake-oil” or “cult” or “evangelism” or “woo”. What they would probably be saying is “duh”. But as far as I can see that’s your basic message, shorn of all the neuro-Spinozism spangles and fluff and dodgy-sounding claims of eternal happiness.
As I said before, I’m glad that things have “clicked” for you and that you, presumably, feel better about your life than you did formerly. I just don’t see why you need to wrap a core of nice, basic bits of life advice in ten pounds of shiny wrapping paper. Are you afraid people won’t take you seriously if you don’t make your ideas seem complex and revolutionary? Honestly, the opposite is probably true. Profound truths about the ideal way to live are usually pretty simple. Not necessarily easy, by any means, but definitely simple.
I still highly recommend that you listen to the audio with headphones in a relaxed way as a form of meditation, Tiffany, you will understand more of what this is about and that it is really an epiphany or conversion. If you at least give me the benefit of the doubt and do that I can trust that you took the time to investigate this to its fullest potential.
I don’t think you did do the Steps, though. You probably froze at Step 2 and deflected everything and simply read it as information to process, rather than to update your beliefs (epistemic rationality), it’s not usually easy for us to accept emotions. Listen to the audio and read this emotional intelligence guide and I can reassure you that you will have a deeper understanding what this is about. I’m not trying to tell you anything or convince you, on the contrary, I am trying to make you question yourself and what you are emotionally invested in and how it’s limiting your potential. But I don’t know how. So I guess I have to convince you to think for yourself! Makes no sense and it’s a paradox, but hint, you don’t right now, or maybe :)
It’s very hard because most of LessWrongers are in death spiral, whether affective or not, the utility function of said death spiral includes rejecting these types of opportunities. It doesn’t really matter what I say. I can only say this and try my way of convincing you to let go of your false beliefs and irrationality, really. It’s so astonishing how so many can be irrational.
I’m simply asking you to 1) be open-minded 2) do the steps and the audio while being open-minded.
I’ve answered so many arguments and debunked so many of the users here for their nonsense, for them, it all boiled down to objective evidence, neuroimaging. That’s very expensive and our understanding of our brain is still very small. Having to answer these irrelevant questions proves my point that many are here for intellectual entertainment rather than in a serious effort, investigate why the world is the way it is—why I am, and how I can change it?
Snake-oil, cult, evengalism, woo. These are all irrational crying wolf arguments by irrational people. I hope you’re not and that someone reading this really gives it an honest try.
If you said may instead of will it wouldn’t set off the alarm bells. “Will” is a promise. If what you mean is “other people have reported experiencing these effects”, I’d recommend saying that instead. The list of “you will” points looks like advertising at best and culty at worst.
It’s a way of communicating, it’s not meant to be that serious and nitpicked to figure out the smallest “flaws”. That’s probably one time waste of yours. If not, my fault. It’s will most, then “you will”, which does not imply any specific, but most. Vague.
Honestly ingive, there’s not a massive amount wrong with what you’re saying that I can see, except that it’s all dressed up to the nines in semi-mystical language and presented as an epiphany or conversion rather than as a sensible set of guidelines.
Rationality is beautiful, so is consistency, the consistent patterns which has brought us about. It’s literally Awesome. There is nothing which a caveman which is transported to modern days NYC will say but be speechless and maybe “Awe” “Beauty” “Divine” “Love” to describe it when he returns home to his cave. Limitations of language are here, that’s why you have to visualize. That’s why the steps might be limiting. It’s about You. Your subjective experience. Your consciousness. All you, not me and no collective.
Imagine I linked to a webpage that just said:
“Try to feel good about living life rationally. Know thyself—question why you want things. Question whether the things you want are really necessary for your happiness. Identify your most meaningful goals. Remember that you’re part of something bigger than yourself. Try to focus on living for the benefit of others. Keep thinking this way and you’ll probably feel more content and less worried about trivial things, and get more done.”
That’s not steps. Everyone thinks that everyone will be comforted by it, no matter how irrational they are, no matter how much they resist reality.
I guarantee I wouldn’t be getting all the flak you have here. People wouldn’t be saying “snake-oil” or “cult” or “evangelism” or “woo”. What they would probably be saying is “duh”. But as far as I can see that’s your basic message, shorn of all the neuro-Spinozism spangles and fluff and dodgy-sounding claims of eternal happiness.
So I should change, rather than the flak:ers? Should I or you change? Which is the variable in the question if not undoubtedly your subjective experience? I’m telling you to think for yourself. The fluff is a big deal because you make it, you’re talking sooo much out of your own lens you’re unable to see beyond it, until now.
As I said before, I’m glad that things have “clicked” for you and that you, presumably, feel better about your life than you did formerly. I just don’t see why you need to wrap a core of nice, basic bits of life advice in ten pounds of shiny wrapping paper. Are you afraid people won’t take you seriously if you don’t make your ideas seem complex and revolutionary? Honestly, the opposite is probably true. Profound truths about the ideal way to live are usually pretty simple. Not necessarily easy, by any means, but definitely simple.
My neural activity is equally you as it is me, the same for you, there is no separation, the more that are in line with reality, then I am in line, the “I” which is not referenced to the practical me, my subjective experience.
I’m happy to answer any more questions which you would have. But try the audio and the steps with a sincere effort in improving yourself and emotionally resonating with the consistent patterns which have brought us about.
I would suggest you to do the 48 min binaural/hypnosis as well, although it seems new age-y with the title, it probably has some scientific basis. I’m quite sure it’s very good for emotions. But I am just speculating. It’s very nice and relaxing and I think you will like it. It’s important that we use every tool available to us to recondition our minds to be more in line with reality, logic, rationality and so on.
I’m unsure to what extent you used System 2 emotionally (visualization and so on), rather than System 1 and System 2 sub-vocalization. Sub-vocalization and thinking does not resonate as well as visualizing images, touch, smell, taste and other more primitive things.
Yeah, you probably have quite a strong emotional connection to it, as well as many others here. Remember also how it’s defined in this context: The consistent patterns which bring about reality. Also includes probabilities.
Yeah.
I’m unsure why you would think, based on what was said on that step, that you’re submitting yourself to a higher power and it’s “personal Lord and Savior” stuff. Well I do understand why, it seems like a religion, and that’s exactly key, but maybe you exaggerate it a little bit. It’s funny though. By submitting yourself to inductive reasoning, probabilistic nature of things, and of course, the consistent patterns that bring you about and realizing experience is a tool rather then a goal, you have mastered the Way. There is nothing more, nothing less, it’s just how it is.
That’s not a part of the steps.
I’m glad it’s making sense, based on the comments here, I was becoming worried that a lot of people were not able to let aside their preconditioned beliefs.
That’s what we have seen so far. People really notice something have changed. Of course those with physiological/neurochemical imbalances or whatever won’t be cured but they will probably have an easier time to work out how to solve their problems with our species current literature.
None of the things mentioned is exclusively rooted in biology. Regarding periods I remember one woman who reported having an easier time dealing with the emotional swings that come with it by for example studying hormonal effects on emotion/cognition. The knowledge becomes applicable naturally.
Of course you will think for yourself, and logic will simply be a guide through life. It does sound too good to be true, there is no understatement to the paradigm shift of a religious experience.
That’s the word for the paradigm shift. There’s not enough statistics and science to conclude if it is the case, however anecdotal reports have offered a perspective.
Because our understanding of QM and neuroscience gives us the same conclusion, while still being right and in line.
It’s not as if these things were made up beforehand, people were helped and it is worthwhile to mention. 23 hits of “social anxiety” 29 of “depress” and 12 of “drug” https://logicnation.org/Testimonies although it might be not representative since some might use the words in different contexts or multiple times.
If you said may instead of will it wouldn’t set off the alarm bells. “Will” is a promise. If what you mean is “other people have reported experiencing these effects”, I’d recommend saying that instead. The list of “you will” points looks like advertising at best and culty at worst.
Honestly ingive, there’s not a massive amount wrong with what you’re saying that I can see, except that it’s all dressed up to the nines in semi-mystical language and presented as an epiphany or conversion rather than as a sensible set of guidelines.
Imagine I linked to a webpage that just said:
“Try to feel good about living life rationally. Know thyself—question why you want things. Question whether the things you want are really necessary for your happiness. Identify your most meaningful goals. Remember that you’re part of something bigger than yourself. Try to focus on living for the benefit of others. Keep thinking this way and you’ll probably feel more content and less worried about trivial things, and get more done.”
I guarantee I wouldn’t be getting all the flak you have here. People wouldn’t be saying “snake-oil” or “cult” or “evangelism” or “woo”. What they would probably be saying is “duh”. But as far as I can see that’s your basic message, shorn of all the neuro-Spinozism spangles and fluff and dodgy-sounding claims of eternal happiness.
As I said before, I’m glad that things have “clicked” for you and that you, presumably, feel better about your life than you did formerly. I just don’t see why you need to wrap a core of nice, basic bits of life advice in ten pounds of shiny wrapping paper. Are you afraid people won’t take you seriously if you don’t make your ideas seem complex and revolutionary? Honestly, the opposite is probably true. Profound truths about the ideal way to live are usually pretty simple. Not necessarily easy, by any means, but definitely simple.
I still highly recommend that you listen to the audio with headphones in a relaxed way as a form of meditation, Tiffany, you will understand more of what this is about and that it is really an epiphany or conversion. If you at least give me the benefit of the doubt and do that I can trust that you took the time to investigate this to its fullest potential.
I don’t think you did do the Steps, though. You probably froze at Step 2 and deflected everything and simply read it as information to process, rather than to update your beliefs (epistemic rationality), it’s not usually easy for us to accept emotions. Listen to the audio and read this emotional intelligence guide and I can reassure you that you will have a deeper understanding what this is about. I’m not trying to tell you anything or convince you, on the contrary, I am trying to make you question yourself and what you are emotionally invested in and how it’s limiting your potential. But I don’t know how. So I guess I have to convince you to think for yourself! Makes no sense and it’s a paradox, but hint, you don’t right now, or maybe :)
It’s very hard because most of LessWrongers are in death spiral, whether affective or not, the utility function of said death spiral includes rejecting these types of opportunities. It doesn’t really matter what I say. I can only say this and try my way of convincing you to let go of your false beliefs and irrationality, really. It’s so astonishing how so many can be irrational.
I’m simply asking you to 1) be open-minded 2) do the steps and the audio while being open-minded.
I’ve answered so many arguments and debunked so many of the users here for their nonsense, for them, it all boiled down to objective evidence, neuroimaging. That’s very expensive and our understanding of our brain is still very small. Having to answer these irrelevant questions proves my point that many are here for intellectual entertainment rather than in a serious effort, investigate why the world is the way it is—why I am, and how I can change it?
Snake-oil, cult, evengalism, woo. These are all irrational crying wolf arguments by irrational people. I hope you’re not and that someone reading this really gives it an honest try.
Now let me answer your irrelevant questions, c’mon, get off it already. :`)
It’s a way of communicating, it’s not meant to be that serious and nitpicked to figure out the smallest “flaws”. That’s probably one time waste of yours. If not, my fault. It’s will most, then “you will”, which does not imply any specific, but most. Vague.
Rationality is beautiful, so is consistency, the consistent patterns which has brought us about. It’s literally Awesome. There is nothing which a caveman which is transported to modern days NYC will say but be speechless and maybe “Awe” “Beauty” “Divine” “Love” to describe it when he returns home to his cave. Limitations of language are here, that’s why you have to visualize. That’s why the steps might be limiting. It’s about You. Your subjective experience. Your consciousness. All you, not me and no collective.
That’s not steps. Everyone thinks that everyone will be comforted by it, no matter how irrational they are, no matter how much they resist reality.
So I should change, rather than the flak:ers? Should I or you change? Which is the variable in the question if not undoubtedly your subjective experience? I’m telling you to think for yourself. The fluff is a big deal because you make it, you’re talking sooo much out of your own lens you’re unable to see beyond it, until now.
My neural activity is equally you as it is me, the same for you, there is no separation, the more that are in line with reality, then I am in line, the “I” which is not referenced to the practical me, my subjective experience.
I’m happy to answer any more questions which you would have. But try the audio and the steps with a sincere effort in improving yourself and emotionally resonating with the consistent patterns which have brought us about.