Hmm, is there a difference? In that if you think that you are the feeling of tension, then logically you are also at the location of the tension.
Yes, there is a difference between the location of the tension and the location of the feeling of the tension. The location of the tension is behind my eyes, the location of the feeling is… good question. Somewhere in my head; ask neuroscience. The tag (=dot) can only be added to the feeling, since only that is mental, so that would have to be the “map”. By analogy: If I go put the map into my bag, the location of the red dot moves, but the location it indicates doesnt. If I turn my head, the location of the feeling (presumably) moves, but the location of the tension only coincidentally moves because its physically connected. If it’s a tension on my hand instead, then it wouldnt move.
These kinds of inconsistencies suggest that a part of the experience of the self, is actually an interpretation that is constructed on the fly, rather than being fundamental in the sense that intuition might otherwise suggest.
I dont disagree with this, but more because I think almost everything is like that. Or do you mean something that wouldn’t be true of e.g. detecting objects? My point was that when feeling a thing in the hand, the method would locate your “self” in the hand. But noone beliefs their self is in their hand, not even intuitively. Therefore, those sensations are not a sense of self, it only seemed that way because the visual version made sense by coincidence.
If you have the experience of seeing yourself staring at the thing from a third-person perspective, then a question that might be interesting to investigate is “where are you looking at the third-person image from?”.
On my left side 1.5-2m from me at the same height as my head. But I dont think thats helpful, its again just the focal point of that visual field, and it’s an imagined picture anyway, so that point isn’t in regular space-time.
Good catch! I think it’s basically the same, despite sounding different; I briefly say a few words about that at the end of a later post.
I think I understand. The self-tag applies to experiences, so identifying with the plane would mean tagging your model of the plane. But in the Truely Enlightened state you should be aware of the tagging, and so only identify with experiences?
It’s possible to get into states where you have this to at least some extent, but there’s also some goal-directed action going on; and you are identifying with a process which is observing that goal-directed action, rather than getting pulled into it.
How would that process plan without self-markers? Maybe they could be self-markers but not “yours”, but there’d need to be some more explanation of that.
No problem.
Yes, there is a difference between the location of the tension and the location of the feeling of the tension. The location of the tension is behind my eyes, the location of the feeling is… good question. Somewhere in my head; ask neuroscience. The tag (=dot) can only be added to the feeling, since only that is mental, so that would have to be the “map”. By analogy: If I go put the map into my bag, the location of the red dot moves, but the location it indicates doesnt. If I turn my head, the location of the feeling (presumably) moves, but the location of the tension only coincidentally moves because its physically connected. If it’s a tension on my hand instead, then it wouldnt move.
I dont disagree with this, but more because I think almost everything is like that. Or do you mean something that wouldn’t be true of e.g. detecting objects? My point was that when feeling a thing in the hand, the method would locate your “self” in the hand. But noone beliefs their self is in their hand, not even intuitively. Therefore, those sensations are not a sense of self, it only seemed that way because the visual version made sense by coincidence.
On my left side 1.5-2m from me at the same height as my head. But I dont think thats helpful, its again just the focal point of that visual field, and it’s an imagined picture anyway, so that point isn’t in regular space-time.
I think I understand. The self-tag applies to experiences, so identifying with the plane would mean tagging your model of the plane. But in the Truely Enlightened state you should be aware of the tagging, and so only identify with experiences?
How would that process plan without self-markers? Maybe they could be self-markers but not “yours”, but there’d need to be some more explanation of that.