Seems to me that in a relationship people spend much more time talking than having sex. Thus, even if the sex is great, if talking is painful, the relationship as a whole sucks.
And that’s just idle talk… imagine having to solve real problems, or even owning property together, or having children. All the stupid stuff you read about online, happening at your own home.
Before LW, I didn’t know any “sane” community. I did know a few “sane” individuals. But they didn’t have the explicit concept of “sanity”; I was not able to ask them “Where can I find more people like you?” in a way that would make them understand what exactly I wanted. For example, if they had a hobby, they would recommend me other people having the same hobby, but those other people wouldn’t be “sane”. In other words, there wasn’t a place to meet new “sane” people.
If I could be 20 years old again now, my step 1 for a serious relation would be “go to all possible LW meetups”, and the step 2 would probably be starting my own rationalist blog, in hope of attracting attention of someone who doesn’t go to LW meetups (yet). In reality, I already do have a girlfriend, and she helps me organize local LW meetups. I met her completely randomly, and it took me a few decades to have such lucky random event. I obviously can’t recommend that as a strategy.
Actually, until a few years ago I didn’t even have a hope of ever dating a sane person. Probably not even the concept of sanity; only a vague idea of “someone like me”. But that only creates an infinite recursion: where should I go to meet “people like me”, if the problem in the first place is that I don’t know where to go? Where is my Schelling point? Even today, I cannot give a better answer than “a LW community”. (But I was not strong enough to create one. Which is one of the reasons I deeply admire Eliezer.)
Cool, thank you! I can really relate to what you describe, especially the “not knowing any sane people” part.
What are your thoughts on relationships in general? Let me explain—in brief, I agree with the idea that it’s “a form of socially acceptable insanity” (sort of). To obsess and commit to one thing so much seems crazy to me. But not really; it makes people happy and you don’t (always) have to sacrifice too much. So the cost-benefit does seem worth it.
Obsession is nature’s way of making cooperation more resistant to random disruptive events.
I think an important skill in relationships is to be able to see a long-term perspective even when you are in a bad moment. Don’t ruin a mostly great relationship, just because today is the exceptional day that sucks. It can be easy to start a downward spiral. Forgiving is a way to play “tit for tat” in a noisy environment. The simplest hack to make people forgive is to make them blind towards the mistakes. (Which again comes with its own problems, because evolution is so short-sighted. Some people are too blind; some people forgive too much.)
Costly signalling of cooperation is important in situations where there is so much at stake, such as raising children. I am rather conservative about relationships because… well, if I simplify it a lot, conservatism at its core is all about costly signalling.
Sorry, I’m rambling, because of lack of sleep. So I’ll stop now.
I feel the same way on “dating with sane people”. I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on this.
Seems to me that in a relationship people spend much more time talking than having sex. Thus, even if the sex is great, if talking is painful, the relationship as a whole sucks.
And that’s just idle talk… imagine having to solve real problems, or even owning property together, or having children. All the stupid stuff you read about online, happening at your own home.
Before LW, I didn’t know any “sane” community. I did know a few “sane” individuals. But they didn’t have the explicit concept of “sanity”; I was not able to ask them “Where can I find more people like you?” in a way that would make them understand what exactly I wanted. For example, if they had a hobby, they would recommend me other people having the same hobby, but those other people wouldn’t be “sane”. In other words, there wasn’t a place to meet new “sane” people.
If I could be 20 years old again now, my step 1 for a serious relation would be “go to all possible LW meetups”, and the step 2 would probably be starting my own rationalist blog, in hope of attracting attention of someone who doesn’t go to LW meetups (yet). In reality, I already do have a girlfriend, and she helps me organize local LW meetups. I met her completely randomly, and it took me a few decades to have such lucky random event. I obviously can’t recommend that as a strategy.
Actually, until a few years ago I didn’t even have a hope of ever dating a sane person. Probably not even the concept of sanity; only a vague idea of “someone like me”. But that only creates an infinite recursion: where should I go to meet “people like me”, if the problem in the first place is that I don’t know where to go? Where is my Schelling point? Even today, I cannot give a better answer than “a LW community”. (But I was not strong enough to create one. Which is one of the reasons I deeply admire Eliezer.)
Cool, thank you! I can really relate to what you describe, especially the “not knowing any sane people” part.
What are your thoughts on relationships in general? Let me explain—in brief, I agree with the idea that it’s “a form of socially acceptable insanity” (sort of). To obsess and commit to one thing so much seems crazy to me. But not really; it makes people happy and you don’t (always) have to sacrifice too much. So the cost-benefit does seem worth it.
Obsession is nature’s way of making cooperation more resistant to random disruptive events.
I think an important skill in relationships is to be able to see a long-term perspective even when you are in a bad moment. Don’t ruin a mostly great relationship, just because today is the exceptional day that sucks. It can be easy to start a downward spiral. Forgiving is a way to play “tit for tat” in a noisy environment. The simplest hack to make people forgive is to make them blind towards the mistakes. (Which again comes with its own problems, because evolution is so short-sighted. Some people are too blind; some people forgive too much.)
Costly signalling of cooperation is important in situations where there is so much at stake, such as raising children. I am rather conservative about relationships because… well, if I simplify it a lot, conservatism at its core is all about costly signalling.
Sorry, I’m rambling, because of lack of sleep. So I’ll stop now.
That’s very interesting, I never thought of it like that before.
No need to apologize—If you want to keep rambling, I’ll be listening.