I can’t think of any examples where consent cannot be obtained explicitly (barring things like, the person is currently in a state where they’re not capable of being verbal or processing verbal communication, or whatever).
The point is that there is a cost associated with obtaining explicit verbal consent. I think that it’s entirely plausible that that is, nevertheless, exactly the way to go—that this is the right distribution of costs, to protect people who are otherwise vulnerable.
But I don’t think we can actually do the math unless we actually weigh the costs and take them into account. I think a certain kind of person thinks that explicit verbal communication is costless, and tends to typical-mind about this, and thereby not validate its costly nature for People Unlike Themselves (of whom there are a lot).
Roughhousing-in-general is an example of the sort of place where, for a lot of humans and probably a majority (and probably a supermajority of males), obtaining explicit consent à la “wanna have a pillow fight?” is notably less nourishing than picking up a pillow and swinging away.
I agree (even though I would always err on the side of asking). I see three options:
Starting right away with a pillow fight. This has a potential of turning out to be highly uncomfortable/emotionally hurtful to a kid who doesn’t want to be suddenly hit with a pillow.
Initiating an epsilon big stimulus, and seeing if there is a positive or a negative feedback (and then continue either in a positive or a negative feedback loop). This could emotionally hurt a kid who doesn’t want even epsilon big probes without asking (even though not in case of a pillow fight, probably).
Asking first.
Giving the hypercomputer to Visser Three after all, since humans apparently can’t even have a pillow fight without emotionally hurting each other in some way
(Also, I’m not a consequentialist, so I wouldn’t resolve this by considering the utility lost by asking and comparing it to the utility gained by being cautious.)
I would never have considered that verbal consent has a cost. It’s just something totally outside my world model up to now. I guess I’m one of those people who typical-minds. The fact is, though, I tend to actively dislike and not want to be around the kind of people who would have trouble with that—or indeed, the kind of people who would just pick up a pillow and hit me with it without asking first! This probably relates to the fear / disgust / hatred of masculinity I had (was indoctrinated with by the media?) as a child. Funny how everything is connected...
I can’t think of any examples where consent cannot be obtained explicitly (barring things like, the person is currently in a state where they’re not capable of being verbal or processing verbal communication, or whatever).
The point is that there is a cost associated with obtaining explicit verbal consent. I think that it’s entirely plausible that that is, nevertheless, exactly the way to go—that this is the right distribution of costs, to protect people who are otherwise vulnerable.
But I don’t think we can actually do the math unless we actually weigh the costs and take them into account. I think a certain kind of person thinks that explicit verbal communication is costless, and tends to typical-mind about this, and thereby not validate its costly nature for People Unlike Themselves (of whom there are a lot).
Roughhousing-in-general is an example of the sort of place where, for a lot of humans and probably a majority (and probably a supermajority of males), obtaining explicit consent à la “wanna have a pillow fight?” is notably less nourishing than picking up a pillow and swinging away.
I agree (even though I would always err on the side of asking). I see three options:
Starting right away with a pillow fight. This has a potential of turning out to be highly uncomfortable/emotionally hurtful to a kid who doesn’t want to be suddenly hit with a pillow.
Initiating an epsilon big stimulus, and seeing if there is a positive or a negative feedback (and then continue either in a positive or a negative feedback loop). This could emotionally hurt a kid who doesn’t want even epsilon big probes without asking (even though not in case of a pillow fight, probably).
Asking first.
Giving the hypercomputer to Visser Three after all, since humans apparently can’t even have a pillow fight without emotionally hurting each other in some way(Also, I’m not a consequentialist, so I wouldn’t resolve this by considering the utility lost by asking and comparing it to the utility gained by being cautious.)
I would never have considered that verbal consent has a cost. It’s just something totally outside my world model up to now. I guess I’m one of those people who typical-minds. The fact is, though, I tend to actively dislike and not want to be around the kind of people who would have trouble with that—or indeed, the kind of people who would just pick up a pillow and hit me with it without asking first! This probably relates to the fear / disgust / hatred of masculinity I had (was indoctrinated with by the media?) as a child. Funny how everything is connected...