my impression is that even ignoring head counts the historicists have the better of the argument.
Why? I haven’t looked into it much, but it looks to me like they’ve ignored alternative hypotheses (and that they met with mythicism first in the form of crack-pottery). Can you point me to about 2 decibels of evidence you don’t think I’ve seen?
Also, this looks like a mistake:
possible Carrier has some decisive decisive evidence
Why? I haven’t looked into it much, but it looks to me like they’ve ignored alternative hypotheses (and that they met with mythicism first in the form of crack-pottery). Can you point me to about 2 decibels of evidence you don’t think I’ve seen?
If you look closely at the gospels, it sure looks like Jesus was a failed apocalyptic preacher, who wrongly predicted the ends of the world within his lifetime / lifetime of his contemporaries. If so, he wouldn’t have been the only one in the area at the time, and there is precedent for apocalyptic movements surviving and mutating after their original predictions failed. (See Millerites --> Seventh Day Adventists.) Also, hypothesis that Jesus was originally a divine being is at odds with indications that the divinity of Jesus wasn’t originally part of Christian thought, but something that developed in stages.
I’ve seen these assertions before, of course, and the object-level parts may well be correct. But when I “look closely” at this, it “sure looks like” a metaphor for the destruction of the Temple. To the point where it seems natural to doubt that Mark intended anyone to read any of his original work literally. And the oldest ending in our possession likewise “looks like” a metaphor for the same events.
Orson Scott Card put a lot of his religion in the first four Ender books, but I doubt you could ever converge on his actual beliefs if you only had the text to go on.
The genre of Mark seems to be what most scholars rely on to arrive at the failed apocalyptic prophet conclusion, reading Mark as a Greco-Roman biography (Ehrman’s position). But that looks to be seriously unfounded and, as you point out, it seems as though Mark is more like an allegorical Jewish novel.
The verses you linked to about the unripe fig tree? The area that Jesus is close to is called Bethphage… which means “house of unripe figs”.
Why? I haven’t looked into it much, but it looks to me like they’ve ignored alternative hypotheses (and that they met with mythicism first in the form of crack-pottery). Can you point me to about 2 decibels of evidence you don’t think I’ve seen?
Also, this looks like a mistake:
If you look closely at the gospels, it sure looks like Jesus was a failed apocalyptic preacher, who wrongly predicted the ends of the world within his lifetime / lifetime of his contemporaries. If so, he wouldn’t have been the only one in the area at the time, and there is precedent for apocalyptic movements surviving and mutating after their original predictions failed. (See Millerites --> Seventh Day Adventists.) Also, hypothesis that Jesus was originally a divine being is at odds with indications that the divinity of Jesus wasn’t originally part of Christian thought, but something that developed in stages.
Thanks, fixed.
I’ve seen these assertions before, of course, and the object-level parts may well be correct. But when I “look closely” at this, it “sure looks like” a metaphor for the destruction of the Temple. To the point where it seems natural to doubt that Mark intended anyone to read any of his original work literally. And the oldest ending in our possession likewise “looks like” a metaphor for the same events.
Orson Scott Card put a lot of his religion in the first four Ender books, but I doubt you could ever converge on his actual beliefs if you only had the text to go on.
The genre of Mark seems to be what most scholars rely on to arrive at the failed apocalyptic prophet conclusion, reading Mark as a Greco-Roman biography (Ehrman’s position). But that looks to be seriously unfounded and, as you point out, it seems as though Mark is more like an allegorical Jewish novel.
The verses you linked to about the unripe fig tree? The area that Jesus is close to is called Bethphage… which means “house of unripe figs”.