I’ll try to write up a post that roughly summarizes the overall thesis I’m trying to build towards here, so that it’s clearer how individual pieces fit together.
But a short answer to the “why would I want a clear handle for ‘sitting upright in alarm’” is that I think it’s at least sometimes necessary (or at the very least, inevitable), for this sort of conversation to veer into politics, and what I want is to eventually be able to discuss politics-qua-politics sanely and truth-trackingly.
My current best guess (although very lightly held) is that politics will go better if it’s possible to pack rhetorical punch into things for a wider variety of reasons, so people don’t feel pressure to say misleading things in order to get attention.
if it’s possible to pack rhetorical punch into things for a wider variety of reasons, so people don’t feel pressure to say misleading things in order to get attention.
I don’t think I agree with any of that—I think that rational discussion needs to have less rhetorical punch and more specific clarity of proposition, which tends not to meet political/other-dominating needs. And most of what we’re talking about in this subthread isn’t “need to say misleading things”, but “have a confused (or just different from mine) worldview that feels misleading without lots of discussion”.
I look forward to further iterations—I hope I’m wrong and only stuck in my confused model of how rationalists approach such disagreements.
I’ll try to write up a post that roughly summarizes the overall thesis I’m trying to build towards here, so that it’s clearer how individual pieces fit together.
But a short answer to the “why would I want a clear handle for ‘sitting upright in alarm’” is that I think it’s at least sometimes necessary (or at the very least, inevitable), for this sort of conversation to veer into politics, and what I want is to eventually be able to discuss politics-qua-politics sanely and truth-trackingly.
My current best guess (although very lightly held) is that politics will go better if it’s possible to pack rhetorical punch into things for a wider variety of reasons, so people don’t feel pressure to say misleading things in order to get attention.
I don’t think I agree with any of that—I think that rational discussion needs to have less rhetorical punch and more specific clarity of proposition, which tends not to meet political/other-dominating needs. And most of what we’re talking about in this subthread isn’t “need to say misleading things”, but “have a confused (or just different from mine) worldview that feels misleading without lots of discussion”.
I look forward to further iterations—I hope I’m wrong and only stuck in my confused model of how rationalists approach such disagreements.