It brings to mind and fits in with some thoughts I have on simulations. Why isn’t this two-layered system you described analogous to the relation between a simulated universe and its simulator?
I mean: the simulator sees and, therefore, is affected by whatever happens in the simulation. But the simulation, if it is just the computation of a mathematical structure, cannot be affected by the simulator: indeed, if I, simulator, were to change the value of some bits during the simulation, the results I would see wouldn’t be the results of the original mathematical structure I was computing. I would be observing a new object, instead of changin the object I was observing, I think.
The simulator, then, is in an epiphenomenal lower level in relation to the simulation
The main problem is that is seems weird to give the simulated stuff (the mathemathical sub-pattern that behaves analogously to a kid kicking a ball and having fun) the same status as the simulator stuff (the electrons implementing the computer). This relates, I think, to the problem of the existence or truth of mathematical facts or statements, and of reality of interpretations of patterns.
Of course, if you think the existence of some universe depends on the fact that its mathematical structure is being computed somewhere (and that that universe has some spark of base-lavel existence), then this “epiphenomenalism” goes away.
Great post as usual.
It brings to mind and fits in with some thoughts I have on simulations. Why isn’t this two-layered system you described analogous to the relation between a simulated universe and its simulator? I mean: the simulator sees and, therefore, is affected by whatever happens in the simulation. But the simulation, if it is just the computation of a mathematical structure, cannot be affected by the simulator: indeed, if I, simulator, were to change the value of some bits during the simulation, the results I would see wouldn’t be the results of the original mathematical structure I was computing. I would be observing a new object, instead of changin the object I was observing, I think. The simulator, then, is in an epiphenomenal lower level in relation to the simulation
The main problem is that is seems weird to give the simulated stuff (the mathemathical sub-pattern that behaves analogously to a kid kicking a ball and having fun) the same status as the simulator stuff (the electrons implementing the computer). This relates, I think, to the problem of the existence or truth of mathematical facts or statements, and of reality of interpretations of patterns.
Of course, if you think the existence of some universe depends on the fact that its mathematical structure is being computed somewhere (and that that universe has some spark of base-lavel existence), then this “epiphenomenalism” goes away.
Also, related to gwern’s comment here.