It’s not exactly clear what propels your suicidal thoughts.
It’s because I’m not exactly sure about it myself. I also didn’t want to make it clear because I feel it’s too embarrassing.
The sufference given by your mental/physical condition? Or are the condition themselves that generate those thoughts?
Probably both, but the former more.
I’m also curious about gambling away your money: why gambling instead of say, donating or spending them in drugs, prostitutes, etc.?
I first thought about donating it to GiveDirectly. But I don’t have a 100% will to die. I thought I’d want to live if I had so much money that I could live comfortably and not have to work for years and gambling has a very small chance of achieving that. About drugs, I have no interest in mindless wireheading. I would, if the state of euphoria would last, but in regards to contemporary drugs what goes up must come down so the negative/positive mental states even out and I might as well live in a normal neutral mental state. But I bought some psychedelics and used them for a while until I grew tired of them and threw the rest of them away. I also thought about prostitutes, but I wasn’t excited enough to do anything about it.
Generally, I’ve been sensory binging for some time now and it hasn’t made my situation that much better so I don’t feel like drugs or prostitutes would make me feel very much better on the long term.
Normally the first rule of responding to a suicidal poster on a web forum would be advising you to get professional help, call an emergency line, join a support group, all that stuff. And it’s still what I will recommend you do in the first place, but we must admit that some of them may be ill-equipped to deal with the struggles of a highly rational person. On the other hand, they may try a supportive approach you haven’t thought of yet. As per the posted LW guidelines, we must point you to these resources:
As your medical history is yours to choose to share or not, you don’t need to apologize for keeping it private. But you wouldn’t need to apologize, either, if you chose to discuss it with us. You’re protected behind your username. Most of us don’t know you in meatspace. And even if someone dared make fun of you or say something insensitive, he/she would be downvoted to cyber-hell. One of the main priorities I’ve noticed in the LW forum is that its members take human survival very seriously, and we’re talking your survival here.
In your post I saw several signs that suggest you don’t really want to die. You postponed it out of consideration for your relative (i.e. you still care about things in this world). Every day you wake up less sure of doing it than you were the previous night. You still find the idea repulsive on a gut level. By what I’m about to say I mean absolutely no disrespect, and I don’t intend in any way to minimize what you’re feeling, but as someone who has been terribly depressed before, I can assure you that people who are resolved to suicide find the idea comforting, not unnerving. From your words it’s clear you want the pain to end, but not to end it all.
For most of us, keeping on with life is just the default state, something that happens on its own if we don’t do anything to change it. In your case, you’ll find that, when staying alive becomes a conscious decision, it gives you an added strength that most people aren’t familiar with. Instead of just living because it’s what’s supposed to happen, you will feel that you decided to stop inertia from pushing you (as it does to all of us) and instead stepped up to own your life. Choosing to stay alive will gradually change your mindset toward more self-mastery. It also comes with a number of responsibilities. You have medical issues to attend to. Eventually you’ll need to face the consequences of what you did with your money, and work towards restoring your livelihood. Other LW members are a hundred times more money-savvy than I am, and will be able to give you much better advice on that matter. What I can say to you is something that both LW rationalists and suicide counselors say: question what your mind is telling you. Especially if it’s telling you that you need to harm yourself; in that case you should not believe it at all.
Normally the first rule of responding to a suicidal poster on a web forum would be advising you to get professional help, call an emergency line, join a support group, all that stuff.
Okay, I haven’t done the first two. I’ve made a couple posts on www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch during the past few years but then I started harassing the people of that subreddit for reasons I’m not exactly sure of—I encouraged them to commit suicide, like this—then my whole IP got banned from reddit about a week ago.
And it’s still what I will recommend you do in the first place, but we must admit that some of them may be ill-equipped to deal with the struggles of a highly rational person.
I’m not sure if I’d call me “rational”, I’m not sure if a rational person would consider suicide, but I’m a bit out of the ordinary for sure.
On the other hand, they may try a supportive approach you haven’t thought of yet.
Okay, I promise to call to a suicide hotline before I attempt a suicide (confidence, 90%).
I don’t live in any of those countries so that didn’t help me very much,
In your post I saw several signs that suggest you don’t really want to die. You postponed it out of consideration for your relative (i.e. you still care about things in this world). Every day you wake up less sure of doing it than you were the previous night. You still find the idea repulsive on a gut level. By what I’m about to say I mean absolutely no disrespect, and I don’t intend in any way to minimize what you’re feeling, but as someone who has been terribly depressed before, I can assure you that people who are resolved to suicide find the idea comforting, not unnerving. From your words it’s clear you want the pain to end, but not to end it all.
I’m not sure if that’s a good thing to say for a person frequenting LW forums who probably has some level of self-awareness, but it surely isn’t for a general suicidal person. I quote SQLwitch, the mod from /r/suicidewatch, who’s been helping suicidal people for decades:
‘Don’t disagree with suicidal people about how bad things are. It’s not about their circumstances; it’s about their suffering, and you can’t measure that from the outside. A message that in any way tries to tell or show the suicidal person that “it’s not so bad” is just another way of saying “I don’t understand what you’re going through”.’
‘For our OPs who are in the lowest and most dangerous state of mind, simply seeing one of these message can make their sense of alienation and failure worse, because they are not remotely able to believe that it’s true for them. Anything meant to be universally “uplifting”, including the overuse of the “It Gets Better” message, which originated in the specific context that adults aren’t usually as emotionally immature as teenagers, tends to backfire.”’
This part of your post initially made me feel worse because being suicidal is a considerable part of my identity (I’ve been thinking about it for the past 7 years). Making assumptions about a person you don’t know makes the other person feel kinda bad. It’s a bit unfair because you can say the same thing about every person who is still alive and suicidal. Every live suicidal person has something to cling to because otherwise they would have seriously attempted suicide already and would mostly likely be dead—or in the process of committing suicide.
I’ve had some comfort from suicide, but it has been from a state between “abstract” and “practical”. Not from a state “I’m gonna do it a few hours from now”.
In your case, you’ll find that, when staying alive becomes a conscious decision, it gives you an added strength that most people aren’t familiar with. Instead of just living because it’s what’s supposed to happen, you will feel that you decided to stop inertia from pushing you (as it does to all of us) and instead stepped up to own your life.
I’ve used that kind of rational to think of myself as a “better person” but it hasn’t worked. Or I don’t know, maybe it has. And maybe I don’t really want to die. Can you taboo the concept “resolved to suicide”? Maybe I’m not actually resolved to suicide, but I’ve thought about it a lot and made plans. Only time will show if I’m actually gonna do it.
What I can say to you is something that both LW rationalists and suicide counselors say: question what your mind is telling you. Especially if it’s telling you that you need to harm yourself; in that case you should not believe it at all.
But questioning my mind is one of my problems to begin with. Other people have told me that “I should be more confident” and I “should trust myself more”. Being suicidal is such a big part of my identity that I should basically question everything I do, and then I’m not at all sure what I should do which leads to further problems.
I hope I didn’t come out as trying to tell you things weren’t so bad, because that was not my intent. I’m not inside your head and I have no right to explain your feelings to you. I don’t, and won’t, question your circumstances, which are very real. What I’d like to help you focus on is what you decide to do about those circumstances, because that part of your personal story isn’t set in stone yet.
You probably know it’s not a healthy sign that suicidal thoughts have gotten so deep that they’ve become a core part of your identity. However, what we often cling to as our identity is more flexible than we’re willing to admit. If you’ve ever changed religions or dealt with unconventional sexual feelings, you know that the way we’ve grown used to define ourselves may in fact evolve continually.
Perhaps I ought to have been more detailed with the questioning part, but I didn’t want to cross a line where I would begin dictating to you what you should do. Questioning your mind also involves learning to distinguish which thoughts are reliable and which aren’t. Examine where a thought leads you, trace the consequences as fully as you can before you judge whether that thought serves you or not, and by “serve you,” you may insert whichever you like from “makes me stronger,” “makes me happier,” “calms me down,” or whatever priority you have set for your life. You won’t always want to ask yourself what’s the use of every thought, because it gets tiresome at times. You’ll need to set criteria that work for you so you’re free from both carelessness and overthinking.
In your post I saw several signs that suggest you don’t really want to die. You postponed it out of consideration for your relative (i.e. you still care about things in this world). Every day you wake up less sure of doing it than you were the previous night. You still find the idea repulsive on a gut level. By what I’m about to say I mean absolutely no disrespect, and I don’t intend in any way to minimize what you’re feeling, but as someone who has been terribly depressed before, I can assure you that people who are resolved to suicide find the idea comforting, not unnerving. From your words it’s clear you want the pain to end, but not to end it all.
I think I kinda got obsessed with this part of your post and started thinking really much about it (sorry for ignoring all the other advice in your posts). Mainly because I realized that I even suck at being suicidal—I’m not good at even that, haha. I guess I shouldn’t care about things in this world if I’m suicidal. With that in mind I decided to advance it by a week, so umm… today. I have a big amount cognitive dissonance, I still suck at this “really wanting to die” business, but maybe I’ll push through.
It’s because I’m not exactly sure about it myself. I also didn’t want to make it clear because I feel it’s too embarrassing.
Now I’m curious than ever, but of course you’re not obliged to satisfy my curiosity. In my culture there’s no overlap between embarassing and very painful diseases, but I guess that in other cultures (say, Japanese) it might be different.
I’m also shooting in the dark here, but something like
so the negative/positive mental states even out and I might as well live in a normal neutral mental state
Now I’m curious than ever, but of course you’re not obliged to satisfy my curiosity.
Let’s see if I can muster enough courage to speak about my problems more explicitly.
sounds odd from a person with suicidal thoughts.
I’ve heard that one before (that I have weird issues for a person with suicidal thoughts. Even that I’m maybe even lying to myself… that I’m not actually suicidal.)
I’ve heard that one before (that I have weird issues for a person with suicidal thoughts. Even that I’m maybe even lying to myself… that I’m not actually suicidal.)
Well, I wouldn’t say that, after all everyone has their own peculiarity. Perhaps your brain is compartimentalizing suicide and survival instincts, and you’re switching between the two. We still understand so very little about the brain and its diseases nobody can be really sure.
Ah, one of my dearest friend suffers from both IBS and a mild case of OCD. I wonder if there’s some connection between IBS, the enteric brain and the encephalic brain that might explain these occurences. I say this because when a psychiatrist tried to treat her for the latter disorder, the meds aggravated the first condition, so were promptly suspended. No one saw this coming.
Earlier you mentioned you couldn’t afford a counselor. I don’t know the specifics of your country’s system, but lack of money should not be a problem if you have coverage for both of your conditions.
It’s because I’m not exactly sure about it myself. I also didn’t want to make it clear because I feel it’s too embarrassing.
Probably both, but the former more.
I first thought about donating it to GiveDirectly. But I don’t have a 100% will to die. I thought I’d want to live if I had so much money that I could live comfortably and not have to work for years and gambling has a very small chance of achieving that. About drugs, I have no interest in mindless wireheading. I would, if the state of euphoria would last, but in regards to contemporary drugs what goes up must come down so the negative/positive mental states even out and I might as well live in a normal neutral mental state. But I bought some psychedelics and used them for a while until I grew tired of them and threw the rest of them away. I also thought about prostitutes, but I wasn’t excited enough to do anything about it.
Generally, I’ve been sensory binging for some time now and it hasn’t made my situation that much better so I don’t feel like drugs or prostitutes would make me feel very much better on the long term.
Normally the first rule of responding to a suicidal poster on a web forum would be advising you to get professional help, call an emergency line, join a support group, all that stuff. And it’s still what I will recommend you do in the first place, but we must admit that some of them may be ill-equipped to deal with the struggles of a highly rational person. On the other hand, they may try a supportive approach you haven’t thought of yet. As per the posted LW guidelines, we must point you to these resources:
http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Suicide,_Self-Harm,_or_Violent_Content_on_LessWrong#Suicide_and_Self-Harm
As your medical history is yours to choose to share or not, you don’t need to apologize for keeping it private. But you wouldn’t need to apologize, either, if you chose to discuss it with us. You’re protected behind your username. Most of us don’t know you in meatspace. And even if someone dared make fun of you or say something insensitive, he/she would be downvoted to cyber-hell. One of the main priorities I’ve noticed in the LW forum is that its members take human survival very seriously, and we’re talking your survival here.
In your post I saw several signs that suggest you don’t really want to die. You postponed it out of consideration for your relative (i.e. you still care about things in this world). Every day you wake up less sure of doing it than you were the previous night. You still find the idea repulsive on a gut level. By what I’m about to say I mean absolutely no disrespect, and I don’t intend in any way to minimize what you’re feeling, but as someone who has been terribly depressed before, I can assure you that people who are resolved to suicide find the idea comforting, not unnerving. From your words it’s clear you want the pain to end, but not to end it all.
For most of us, keeping on with life is just the default state, something that happens on its own if we don’t do anything to change it. In your case, you’ll find that, when staying alive becomes a conscious decision, it gives you an added strength that most people aren’t familiar with. Instead of just living because it’s what’s supposed to happen, you will feel that you decided to stop inertia from pushing you (as it does to all of us) and instead stepped up to own your life. Choosing to stay alive will gradually change your mindset toward more self-mastery. It also comes with a number of responsibilities. You have medical issues to attend to. Eventually you’ll need to face the consequences of what you did with your money, and work towards restoring your livelihood. Other LW members are a hundred times more money-savvy than I am, and will be able to give you much better advice on that matter. What I can say to you is something that both LW rationalists and suicide counselors say: question what your mind is telling you. Especially if it’s telling you that you need to harm yourself; in that case you should not believe it at all.
Okay, I haven’t done the first two. I’ve made a couple posts on www.reddit.com/r/suicidewatch during the past few years but then I started harassing the people of that subreddit for reasons I’m not exactly sure of—I encouraged them to commit suicide, like this—then my whole IP got banned from reddit about a week ago.
I’m not sure if I’d call me “rational”, I’m not sure if a rational person would consider suicide, but I’m a bit out of the ordinary for sure.
Okay, I promise to call to a suicide hotline before I attempt a suicide (confidence, 90%).
I don’t live in any of those countries so that didn’t help me very much,
I’m not sure if that’s a good thing to say for a person frequenting LW forums who probably has some level of self-awareness, but it surely isn’t for a general suicidal person. I quote SQLwitch, the mod from /r/suicidewatch, who’s been helping suicidal people for decades:
‘Don’t disagree with suicidal people about how bad things are. It’s not about their circumstances; it’s about their suffering, and you can’t measure that from the outside. A message that in any way tries to tell or show the suicidal person that “it’s not so bad” is just another way of saying “I don’t understand what you’re going through”.’
‘For our OPs who are in the lowest and most dangerous state of mind, simply seeing one of these message can make their sense of alienation and failure worse, because they are not remotely able to believe that it’s true for them. Anything meant to be universally “uplifting”, including the overuse of the “It Gets Better” message, which originated in the specific context that adults aren’t usually as emotionally immature as teenagers, tends to backfire.”’
This part of your post initially made me feel worse because being suicidal is a considerable part of my identity (I’ve been thinking about it for the past 7 years). Making assumptions about a person you don’t know makes the other person feel kinda bad. It’s a bit unfair because you can say the same thing about every person who is still alive and suicidal. Every live suicidal person has something to cling to because otherwise they would have seriously attempted suicide already and would mostly likely be dead—or in the process of committing suicide.
I’ve had some comfort from suicide, but it has been from a state between “abstract” and “practical”. Not from a state “I’m gonna do it a few hours from now”.
I’ve used that kind of rational to think of myself as a “better person” but it hasn’t worked. Or I don’t know, maybe it has. And maybe I don’t really want to die. Can you taboo the concept “resolved to suicide”? Maybe I’m not actually resolved to suicide, but I’ve thought about it a lot and made plans. Only time will show if I’m actually gonna do it.
But questioning my mind is one of my problems to begin with. Other people have told me that “I should be more confident” and I “should trust myself more”. Being suicidal is such a big part of my identity that I should basically question everything I do, and then I’m not at all sure what I should do which leads to further problems.
I hope I didn’t come out as trying to tell you things weren’t so bad, because that was not my intent. I’m not inside your head and I have no right to explain your feelings to you. I don’t, and won’t, question your circumstances, which are very real. What I’d like to help you focus on is what you decide to do about those circumstances, because that part of your personal story isn’t set in stone yet.
You probably know it’s not a healthy sign that suicidal thoughts have gotten so deep that they’ve become a core part of your identity. However, what we often cling to as our identity is more flexible than we’re willing to admit. If you’ve ever changed religions or dealt with unconventional sexual feelings, you know that the way we’ve grown used to define ourselves may in fact evolve continually.
Perhaps I ought to have been more detailed with the questioning part, but I didn’t want to cross a line where I would begin dictating to you what you should do. Questioning your mind also involves learning to distinguish which thoughts are reliable and which aren’t. Examine where a thought leads you, trace the consequences as fully as you can before you judge whether that thought serves you or not, and by “serve you,” you may insert whichever you like from “makes me stronger,” “makes me happier,” “calms me down,” or whatever priority you have set for your life. You won’t always want to ask yourself what’s the use of every thought, because it gets tiresome at times. You’ll need to set criteria that work for you so you’re free from both carelessness and overthinking.
I think I kinda got obsessed with this part of your post and started thinking really much about it (sorry for ignoring all the other advice in your posts). Mainly because I realized that I even suck at being suicidal—I’m not good at even that, haha. I guess I shouldn’t care about things in this world if I’m suicidal. With that in mind I decided to advance it by a week, so umm… today. I have a big amount cognitive dissonance, I still suck at this “really wanting to die” business, but maybe I’ll push through.
Now I’m curious than ever, but of course you’re not obliged to satisfy my curiosity. In my culture there’s no overlap between embarassing and very painful diseases, but I guess that in other cultures (say, Japanese) it might be different.
I’m also shooting in the dark here, but something like
sounds odd from a person with suicidal thoughts.
Let’s see if I can muster enough courage to speak about my problems more explicitly.
I’ve heard that one before (that I have weird issues for a person with suicidal thoughts. Even that I’m maybe even lying to myself… that I’m not actually suicidal.)
Well, I wouldn’t say that, after all everyone has their own peculiarity. Perhaps your brain is compartimentalizing suicide and survival instincts, and you’re switching between the two. We still understand so very little about the brain and its diseases nobody can be really sure.
Alright, my problems are Irritable bowel syndrome and borderline personality disorder.
Ah, one of my dearest friend suffers from both IBS and a mild case of OCD. I wonder if there’s some connection between IBS, the enteric brain and the encephalic brain that might explain these occurences.
I say this because when a psychiatrist tried to treat her for the latter disorder, the meds aggravated the first condition, so were promptly suspended. No one saw this coming.
Does your country provide universal health care? Or how does it work?
Yes. Why?
Earlier you mentioned you couldn’t afford a counselor. I don’t know the specifics of your country’s system, but lack of money should not be a problem if you have coverage for both of your conditions.
It’s not very simple. I’m not sure if I have coverage for those conditions. It could be.
In most countries being suicidal is a condition that’s covered. In any case it can’t hurt to ask a local therapist whether you would be covered.