Mostly agree. I especially agree about the organizational structure being very different.
I would not have said “”The median CFAR employee and the median MIRI employee interact frequently.” is not even close to true”, but it depends on the operationalization of frequently. But according to my operationalization, the lunch table alone makes it close to true.
I would also not have said “I think that a CFAR staff retreat is extremely unlike a MIRI research retreat.” (e.g. we have attempted to Circle at a research retreat more than once.) (I haven’t actually been to a CFAR staff retreat, but I have been to some things that I imagine are somewhat close, like workshops where a majority of attendees are CFAR staff).
I think “we’ve attempted to circle at a research retreat more than once” is only a little stronger evidence of overlap than “we also ate food at our retreat.”
Fair point about the lunch table, although it’s my sense that a strict majority of MIRI employees were almost never at the lunch table and for the first two years of my time at CFAR we didn’t share a lunch table.
Yeah. I am more pointing at “the very fact that Scott seems to think that ‘trying to circle more than once’ is sufficient to posit substantial resemblance between MIRI research retreats and CFAR staff retreats is strong evidence that Scott has no idea what the space of CFAR staff retreats is like.”
CFAR staff retreats often involve circling. Our last one, a couple weeks ago, had this, though as an optional evening thing that some but not most took part in.
I’m saying they involved circling often while I was there but that fact was something like 3-15% of their “character” (and probably closer to 3% imo) and so learning that some other thing also involves circling tells you very little about the overall resemblance of the two things.
Mostly agree. I especially agree about the organizational structure being very different.
I would not have said “”The median CFAR employee and the median MIRI employee interact frequently.” is not even close to true”, but it depends on the operationalization of frequently. But according to my operationalization, the lunch table alone makes it close to true.
I would also not have said “I think that a CFAR staff retreat is extremely unlike a MIRI research retreat.” (e.g. we have attempted to Circle at a research retreat more than once.) (I haven’t actually been to a CFAR staff retreat, but I have been to some things that I imagine are somewhat close, like workshops where a majority of attendees are CFAR staff).
I think “we’ve attempted to circle at a research retreat more than once” is only a little stronger evidence of overlap than “we also ate food at our retreat.”
Fair point about the lunch table, although it’s my sense that a strict majority of MIRI employees were almost never at the lunch table and for the first two years of my time at CFAR we didn’t share a lunch table.
If you pick a randomly selected academic or hobby conference, I will be much more surprised that they had circling than if they had food.
Yeah. I am more pointing at “the very fact that Scott seems to think that ‘trying to circle more than once’ is sufficient to posit substantial resemblance between MIRI research retreats and CFAR staff retreats is strong evidence that Scott has no idea what the space of CFAR staff retreats is like.”
To clarify, are you saying that CFAR staff retreats don’t involve circling?
CFAR staff retreats often involve circling. Our last one, a couple weeks ago, had this, though as an optional evening thing that some but not most took part in.
I’m saying they involved circling often while I was there but that fact was something like 3-15% of their “character” (and probably closer to 3% imo) and so learning that some other thing also involves circling tells you very little about the overall resemblance of the two things.
Surprised by the circling comment, but it doesn’t seem worth going deep on a nitpick.