My mathematics teachers in high school were qualified to teach me mathematics because they had degrees (mostly doctorates, but a couple did have lesser degrees) in mathematics.
My chemistry teachers in high school were qualified to teach me chemistry because they had (respectively) a Ph.D. in chemistry and three decades of experience as a working chemist in industry.
My computer science teachers in high school were qualified to teach me computer science because they had degrees in computer science (and were working programmers / engineers).
My biology teachers in high school were qualified to teach me biology because they had degrees (one had a doctorate, another a lesser degree) in biology.
My physics teacher in high school was qualified to teach me physics because he had a degree in physics.
My drafting / technical drawing / computer networking / other “technology” teachers were qualified to teach me those things because they had extensive professional experience in those fields.
(I am not sure what degrees my humanities teachers had, but those subjects aren’t important, so who cares, really. Also, some of them were not qualified to teach anything whatsoever.)
Someone who has a degree in education only is, indeed, not qualified to teach mathematics / chemistry / physics / biology / computer science / any other STEM field at the high school or even middle school level. (Even the latter grades of elementary school are a stretch.)
I think much of the discussion of homeschooling is focused on elementary school. My impression is that some homeschooled children do go to a standard high school, partly for more specialized instruction.
But in any case, very few high school students are taught chemistry by a Ph.D in chemistry with 30 years work experience as a chemist. I think it is fairly uncommon for a high school student to have any teachers with Ph.Ds in any subject (relevant or not). If most of your teachers had Ph.D or other degrees in the subjects they taught, then you were very fortunate. (My daughter is in fact similarly fortunate, but I know perfectly well that her type of private school cannot be scaled to handle most students.)
And if we’re going to discuss atypical situations, I do in fact think that I would be competent to teach all those subjects at a high school level.
I think much of the discussion of homeschooling is focused on elementary school.
Unfortunately, this is not the case. There is a motte-and-bailey situation here, where the motte is “some kids can be homeschooled at the elementary school grade level by some exceptional parents” and the bailey is “abolish schools and homeschool everyone for everything at all grade levels”.
I can provide you cited quotes if you like; or you can take my word that I’ve seen many homeschooling advocates quite unambiguously arguing for homeschooling beyond the elementary-school level.
But in any case, very few high school students are taught chemistry by a Ph.D in chemistry with 30 years work experience as a chemist.
Yes, of course.
If most of your teachers had Ph.D or other degrees in the subjects they taught, then you were very fortunate.
Absolutely. No argument there.
My point, however, is that what it takes to teach children a subject is both skill at teaching, in general (which most people, parents included, do not have), and substantial domain training/expertise (whether that comes from a degree, preferably an advanced degree, in the subject, or from extensive professional experience, or both—and which most people, including most parents, likewise do not have, for most or even all the subjects which are commonly part of a school curriculum).
You might object: doesn’t this imply that most kids in the country are not being taught, and cannot be taught, most of their subjects by anyone who is qualified to teach them those things (as neither their parents nor any of their teachers at school meet those qualifications)?
I answer: correct.
And if we’re going to discuss atypical situations, I do in fact think that I would be competent to teach all those subjects at a high school level.
Well, I am not personally acquainted with you and am not familiar with your academic and professional background, so of course I can’t confidently agree or disagree. However, I hope you’ll forgive me for being very skeptical about your claim.
doesn’t this imply that most kids in the country are not being taught, and cannot be taught, most of their subjects by anyone who is qualified to teach them those things (as neither their parents nor any of their teachers at school meet those qualifications)?
I answer: correct.
What does this mean we lose by abolishing public education? Just the benefits gained by the small minority of kids actually being taught something? I would guess (but haven’t checked) that most of the teachers qualified to teach are at private schools anyway.
Just the benefits gained by the small minority of kids actually being taught something?
Certainly we lose that, yes.
Whether we lose other things is beyond the scope of the main point that I am making here. That point is: if we switch from teachers teaching kids to parents teaching kids, we cannot assume that we thereby go from kids not being taught effectively, to kids being taught effectively. That is because most parents are not competent to effectively teach their kids most (or, often, all) academic subjects.
I would guess (but haven’t checked) that most of the teachers qualified to teach are at private schools anyway.
I, for one, did not attend private schools.[1] My comments upthread, about my own teachers, referred to a public school. (The junior high school I attended, where the teachers were also substantially more competent than the “average teacher” described in this discussion, was also a public school.)
Your guess may nonetheless be correct in the statistical aggregate; I don’t know enough to comment on that.
My mathematics teachers in high school were qualified to teach me mathematics because they had degrees (mostly doctorates, but a couple did have lesser degrees) in mathematics.
My chemistry teachers in high school were qualified to teach me chemistry because they had (respectively) a Ph.D. in chemistry and three decades of experience as a working chemist in industry.
My computer science teachers in high school were qualified to teach me computer science because they had degrees in computer science (and were working programmers / engineers).
My biology teachers in high school were qualified to teach me biology because they had degrees (one had a doctorate, another a lesser degree) in biology.
My physics teacher in high school was qualified to teach me physics because he had a degree in physics.
My drafting / technical drawing / computer networking / other “technology” teachers were qualified to teach me those things because they had extensive professional experience in those fields.
(I am not sure what degrees my humanities teachers had, but those subjects aren’t important, so who cares, really. Also, some of them were not qualified to teach anything whatsoever.)
Someone who has a degree in education only is, indeed, not qualified to teach mathematics / chemistry / physics / biology / computer science / any other STEM field at the high school or even middle school level. (Even the latter grades of elementary school are a stretch.)
I think much of the discussion of homeschooling is focused on elementary school. My impression is that some homeschooled children do go to a standard high school, partly for more specialized instruction.
But in any case, very few high school students are taught chemistry by a Ph.D in chemistry with 30 years work experience as a chemist. I think it is fairly uncommon for a high school student to have any teachers with Ph.Ds in any subject (relevant or not). If most of your teachers had Ph.D or other degrees in the subjects they taught, then you were very fortunate. (My daughter is in fact similarly fortunate, but I know perfectly well that her type of private school cannot be scaled to handle most students.)
And if we’re going to discuss atypical situations, I do in fact think that I would be competent to teach all those subjects at a high school level.
Unfortunately, this is not the case. There is a motte-and-bailey situation here, where the motte is “some kids can be homeschooled at the elementary school grade level by some exceptional parents” and the bailey is “abolish schools and homeschool everyone for everything at all grade levels”.
I can provide you cited quotes if you like; or you can take my word that I’ve seen many homeschooling advocates quite unambiguously arguing for homeschooling beyond the elementary-school level.
Yes, of course.
Absolutely. No argument there.
My point, however, is that what it takes to teach children a subject is both skill at teaching, in general (which most people, parents included, do not have), and substantial domain training/expertise (whether that comes from a degree, preferably an advanced degree, in the subject, or from extensive professional experience, or both—and which most people, including most parents, likewise do not have, for most or even all the subjects which are commonly part of a school curriculum).
You might object: doesn’t this imply that most kids in the country are not being taught, and cannot be taught, most of their subjects by anyone who is qualified to teach them those things (as neither their parents nor any of their teachers at school meet those qualifications)?
I answer: correct.
Well, I am not personally acquainted with you and am not familiar with your academic and professional background, so of course I can’t confidently agree or disagree. However, I hope you’ll forgive me for being very skeptical about your claim.
What does this mean we lose by abolishing public education? Just the benefits gained by the small minority of kids actually being taught something? I would guess (but haven’t checked) that most of the teachers qualified to teach are at private schools anyway.
Certainly we lose that, yes.
Whether we lose other things is beyond the scope of the main point that I am making here. That point is: if we switch from teachers teaching kids to parents teaching kids, we cannot assume that we thereby go from kids not being taught effectively, to kids being taught effectively. That is because most parents are not competent to effectively teach their kids most (or, often, all) academic subjects.
I, for one, did not attend private schools.[1] My comments upthread, about my own teachers, referred to a public school. (The junior high school I attended, where the teachers were also substantially more competent than the “average teacher” described in this discussion, was also a public school.)
Your guess may nonetheless be correct in the statistical aggregate; I don’t know enough to comment on that.
Except for a ~2 month period in 3rd grade; the school in question was substantially worse than all public schools I have attended.