Then let’s talk about specific threads. I’m saying that here starts the most demonic subthread in Kensho, and that most others are not much of a problem (note, I haven’t real all the comments, so there could be worse cases. Also, meta: linking to comments is a pain). This is a branch of two people only, so your “step 1” doesn’t really make sense and “step 2″ requires magic.
This is a branch of two people only, so your “step 1” doesn’t really make sense
Based on personal experience, I think there’s a difference between having a conversation in private, versus having it with a single person, but in a public place where anyone can read what either of you two is saying and form impressions of you based on it. If you agree that such a distinction exists in principle, then I think that suffices to address the quoted objection.
Slightly tangentially: I should also note that I do not view the thread you linked as a particularly strong example of a demon thread, if it is one at all. Of course, I only skimmed the thread in question, so it’s possible that I missed something; it’s also possible that because I was not a participant in that thread myself and don’t possess any social connections to either of the participants, the stakes in status were harder for me to perceive. Even so, I think that if you want to talk about examples of demon threads, there are much clearer cases to point to. (Is there a specific reason you chose that particular thread to talk about, or was it simply due to said thread being fresh in your mind?)
in a public place where anyone can read what either of you two is saying
In reddit, once you go a dozen comments deep and once the main post is no longer hot, you can be pretty sure that nobody is keeping up with your discussion. In LW, where we have “recent comments” section, this is less certain.
I do not view the thread you linked as a particularly strong example of a demon thread
Near the end the thread has “You’ve dratically missed the point of all that I’ve said, missed what I was doing and latched on to only the propositional content of those sentences that I wrote.” , I think that’s how you’d expect a demon thread to end up. I’m referring to the discussion between SaidAchmiz and dsatan, not Valentine, sorry if that was unclear from my link. I also only skimmed it too, but I think that’s good enough—the defining properties of a demon thread aren’t that sensitive to the particular arguments used.
the stakes in status
Why is everyone bringing this up? The very beginning of Raemon’s original demon thread post says “If someone in the future linked you to this post, it’s probably because a giant sprawling mess of angry, confused comments is happening—or is about to happen—and it’s going to waste a lot of time, make people upset, and probably less likely to listen to each other about whatever the conversation ostensibly is about.”. My example is a demon thread, because it is a sprawling mess of angry, confused comments that waste time and make people upset. If it doesn’t have stakes in status, then stakes in status don’t cause demon threads, not the other way around.
there are much clearer cases to point to.
Go ahead, point to them. I only chose that thread because I recently noticed it by chance.
Interestingly, that very thread was what prompted my question of how to handle cases where one’s interlocutor refuses, or ignores, offers to take the conversation private. Coincidence? Surely not…
That thread is certainly a significant case study of something. I have not yet looked through the thread in enough detail to have a clear sense of everything that happened. (I was following comments as they showed up on the front page but not religiously trying to take in the whole thing, given because the volume). But, since I’ve adopted demon threads as my pet issue for the month and that thread is the one everyone’s looking at, I suppose I should delve into it thoroughly.
It may be a few days before I’m able to dedicate the time to it but plan to do so.
Then let’s talk about specific threads. I’m saying that here starts the most demonic subthread in Kensho, and that most others are not much of a problem (note, I haven’t real all the comments, so there could be worse cases. Also, meta: linking to comments is a pain). This is a branch of two people only, so your “step 1” doesn’t really make sense and “step 2″ requires magic.
Based on personal experience, I think there’s a difference between having a conversation in private, versus having it with a single person, but in a public place where anyone can read what either of you two is saying and form impressions of you based on it. If you agree that such a distinction exists in principle, then I think that suffices to address the quoted objection.
Slightly tangentially: I should also note that I do not view the thread you linked as a particularly strong example of a demon thread, if it is one at all. Of course, I only skimmed the thread in question, so it’s possible that I missed something; it’s also possible that because I was not a participant in that thread myself and don’t possess any social connections to either of the participants, the stakes in status were harder for me to perceive. Even so, I think that if you want to talk about examples of demon threads, there are much clearer cases to point to. (Is there a specific reason you chose that particular thread to talk about, or was it simply due to said thread being fresh in your mind?)
In reddit, once you go a dozen comments deep and once the main post is no longer hot, you can be pretty sure that nobody is keeping up with your discussion. In LW, where we have “recent comments” section, this is less certain.
Near the end the thread has “You’ve dratically missed the point of all that I’ve said, missed what I was doing and latched on to only the propositional content of those sentences that I wrote.” , I think that’s how you’d expect a demon thread to end up. I’m referring to the discussion between SaidAchmiz and dsatan, not Valentine, sorry if that was unclear from my link. I also only skimmed it too, but I think that’s good enough—the defining properties of a demon thread aren’t that sensitive to the particular arguments used.
Why is everyone bringing this up? The very beginning of Raemon’s original demon thread post says “If someone in the future linked you to this post, it’s probably because a giant sprawling mess of angry, confused comments is happening—or is about to happen—and it’s going to waste a lot of time, make people upset, and probably less likely to listen to each other about whatever the conversation ostensibly is about.”. My example is a demon thread, because it is a sprawling mess of angry, confused comments that waste time and make people upset. If it doesn’t have stakes in status, then stakes in status don’t cause demon threads, not the other way around.
Go ahead, point to them. I only chose that thread because I recently noticed it by chance.
Interestingly, that very thread was what prompted my question of how to handle cases where one’s interlocutor refuses, or ignores, offers to take the conversation private. Coincidence? Surely not…
That thread is certainly a significant case study of something. I have not yet looked through the thread in enough detail to have a clear sense of everything that happened. (I was following comments as they showed up on the front page but not religiously trying to take in the whole thing, given because the volume). But, since I’ve adopted demon threads as my pet issue for the month and that thread is the one everyone’s looking at, I suppose I should delve into it thoroughly.
It may be a few days before I’m able to dedicate the time to it but plan to do so.